My dream range

16 years ago

I am just starting the agonizing process of figuring out which 48" range I want to buy. It will involve a number decisions about what to compromise on. This board seems to be an invaluable source of information for people doing research. I have read a number of great threads that both show the problems but also the great things about individual ranges. Here is what I have gathered so far. I am one of those who feel that if I spend over 5k for an appliance, it should work as advertised and should not require me to work around a design deficiency. Feel free to correct me if I have misstated anything.

Wolf AG 48"

Serious design issue affecting the burner and oven operation at the same time.

Open burners (I really want)

Great overall build quality (tight knobs, etc)

Haven't heard too much about the oven. Would like some feedback

Wolf DF 48"

Closed burners

Great ovens

Electronics (stuff that gets expensive when it breaks)

Great build quality

Bluestar 48"

Great burners and btu

slight ignitor problem (not a real concern as it is easy to fix)

Range gets extremely hot when using oven and burners (knobs, kickplate, oven door, etc) not feasable with kids

Oven uneven heating (must rotate cookies, etc) even with convection

Tough to get service in some areas

Viking 48"

Overall build quality (don't mean to offend, just what I have read) stopped looking because of this

I have only begun to look but my dream range would look something like this:

Wolf or Bluestar open burners

Wolf DF oven or AG oven (preferably with non-digital controls)

Wolf build quality

Ability to operate all burners without regard to oven operation.

Insulated so that the range is comfortable to use without getting too hot for kids.

Again, feel free to comment, suggest or whatever.

Thanks,

Troy

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (14)

jwebtx
16 years ago
I am nearly in the same boat as you, but deciding between the Bluestar and the Capital Precision.

The Bluestar has the best cooktop and that is without much debate. There are some complaints of "hot", but not burning hot, surfaces during heavy cooking (not enough to injure). There are also some complaints of oven heating. More complaints of igniter problems. BS claims it is a 1% problem. The broiler is infrared and larger than Capital's though. Then there are numerous happy customers that swear by their BS here.

Capital has a sealed but very functional cook top. It is not in the same league as BS though. Their oven (with rotisserie, racks, and self cleaning) is far superior to BS', but for the broiler. There have been a few problems mentioned but nothing consistent. Owners are few and far between here.

Capital is offering a $500 rebate right now and that puts the prices within 2-300 of each other. The decision was easy before that.

I would throw in American, but there seems to be less info on that than Capital.
alku05
16 years ago
Have you looked at all at Lacanche? I don't think it has open burners, but I think it meets all of your other "wants". The burners are great performers and overall their ranges are problem free.
Related Discussions
Range Wish List...reality or fantasy?
Q
Comments (46)
I'm now beginning to think there's a whole lot of substance in the title you gave to this thread, Soshh! I went to one of the Domains yesterday where they were holding a black Aga 6-4 floor model for me to check out. (Earlier, at a different Domain, I had seen the claret red version which kicked off my obsession with the Aga 6-4 in the first place.) IMO, the black 6-4, on visual grounds alone, just did not live up to my expectations. Further, on this floor model's exterior, near the handle, there was a notable section of missing paint and the handle was loose. The salesperson said all that would be taken care of before delivery. But still. . . More importantly,I think my Aga obsession is slowly starting to fade. It's certainly a gorgeous stove, but for me, an empty nester living single -- it may be way more stove than is needed. And, even with a floor model discount of 30%, plus an additional architect's discount of 10% -- a whopping 40% off in total -- I'm beginning to seriously question whether I should go forward with such a purchase. One of the things that makes it so hard for me to go with the Aga is that I've got NO support for doing so from anyone I know personally! A friend who took the hour+ drive to the store with me yesterday (a Wolf owner)questioned my sanity about this for the entire time of the drive. Once we got to the store, where we could examine the range in detail, her critical comments increased all the more. We met another friend for lunch who, upon hearing I was considering the Aga joined in to form a "why would you do that?" chorus. The final straw came last night, when I returned home to voicemail message from yet another friend. Having polled some supposedly knowledgeable co-workers on the virtues of the Aga, they too chimed in with admonitions against my purchase on the basis that it is a range that exists "for design purposes only but is laughable on performance." Frankly, I think there is still a lot of confusion between those who only know Aga as the traditional British cooker and don't understand that the Legacy and 6-4 are different models for the US market. At the same time, I just haven't been able to find significant support for going the Aga route -- even in more knowledgeable venues such as Appliance Advisor and here on the GW forums. In the end, just about all agree that it's a very beautiful and very expensive range. The few who have it, seem to love it, but the fact that there are so few who tout its praises -- based on direct experience -- scares me somewhat. Well, a whole lot really. Bottom line? I did not purchase an Aga 6-4 floor model yesterday. And, while I did not completely close the door (told them if they could find me a floor model in red or cream to let me know), I find I might be starting to lean back towards the more familiar, traditional pro-style range market. . . like towards a Bluestar or Wolf, maybe? Sigh.
...See More
Induction Range Recommendations?
Q
Comments (9)
I bought a year ago. I was on a budget, but I made the decision to go with induction. At the time, I loved the Thermadore cooktop, but way out of my range, so what I went with was a Frigidaire Induction Range. The whole range was much more budget worthy than separate cooktop and slide in oven, which is what I would have gotten, had that been in my budget. So, a year later, I am very happy with my choice. Bought locally. Cost $1700, which included a couple hundred for 5 yr warranty (I read multiple times on varied forums that this was wise to consider). Great performance, love the technology, still looks like it was just delivered. What I like a lot about this model is it has nobs for burner control, (I LOVE the nobs) not all digital. Works better with my brain! I didn't need a warming oven below the oven. The small warming burner that is an electric burner, I haven't used much, but am tickled to have it when I am cooking for larger crowds. Great convection/conventional oven. Great broiler, the coils cover almost all of the space, not just concentrated in the middle of the oven. I received a small, about 3oz. bottle of cleaner with it and still have 3/4 of it left, because I only use it occasionally when I can't get a smudge up. I use a spray bottle with water and white vinegar. Works like a charm 98.9% of the time. Just like cleaning windows, because that's what it is. Hope this helps someone. I used this forum often when considering induction and really appreciated the reviews. I'd like to add that I liked the Electrolux 30" slide in just as well (they are the same company). What made me choose the Frigidaire was the better online reviews (a bit) of their induction stoves, and the other two things I mentioned above, knobs and no warming oven needed. The Frigidaire was also a couple hundred less at the time, hence, more budget worthy.
...See More
Recommendations for Induction range...
Q
Comments (5)
artemis-ma: No manufacturer currently sells a six burner induction range in the North American market. Your mentions of "breaking the bank" etc, make me suspect that you want to stay below $2k as the price. Fortunately, going above $2k is unlikely to yield an induction range that will give more for your stated intentions. If you want a five-induction-burner unit, you have to buy a 5-burner, 36" cooktop and install a wall oven beneath it (or elsewhere in the kitchen if you have the room). To have six induction burners, AFAIK, you would have to get a 30" (4-burner) cooktop and a second, two burner unit (often called "a domino"). The power connections for these are more complicated, too. (A single oven will require a 20 amp 240v connection and the the cooktops will usualy require a 40amp 240v connection, so some rewiring might be needed if you went this route. Most induction ranges require a 40amp 240v circuit, but a few require 50 amp circuits.) If you can work with revamping the 240v wiring, then you might want to consider the new GE and Bosch 36" induction burners with their "bridging" capablities. Silken1 has (I think) the previous PHS GE PHS925 slide-in model. This had a couple of very long and mostly very positive threads, here, which will support the points that Silken made. I think Patricia has the successor model, the PHS 920 which has equally positive reviews here. Personally, if I were shopping for an induction range right now, I might be more inclined to the freestanding version, the PHB920, because there is a bit more room on the cooktop and (thus) a bit more room for canning. From my perspective, the major differences between the previous "925" versions and the current "920" versions are (a) styling and (b) the ovens in 920 versions have more (and better) options and a full-power third ("true") convection element. The left front burner on the GE ranges is 11" diameter and both right side burners are 8" diameter with sufficient power to be quite usable for a canning kettle. (Consider that folks have been canning for decades with kettles on 8" diameter 2500 watt coil burners.) Samsung's sub-$2k freestanding induction ranges (NE597NOPBSR and NE595NOPBSR) have interesting features (and sometimes just plain weird ones) but there are very few reviews here. Most have been positive. Samsung also has a reputation for poor warranty and post-sale support. I would skip the Whirlpool induction ranges. That includes Maytag and the older Kitchenaid induction models. The newest Whirlpool models from Jenn Air, and Kitchenaid are very expensive. Whirlpool's induction burners all seem to have only 10 settings which many find too crude, especially if you want to run pressure cookers or long, slow simmers. The zone arrangements are odd and the big burners are mostly in the back. There seem to be more reports of problems with them, too. The last time I checked, the manuals discouraged using these stoves for canning. The are some less expensive freestanding induction ranges from Frigidaire/Electrolux/Kenmore. The best versions of Frigidaire models, in my opinion, is the Kenmore 95073 and the relatively new Frigidaire slide-in (which often seems discounted to the $1500 to $1600 range, which is (by far) the least expensive induction slide-in.) Some folks like these because they have rotary dial type control interfaces (i.e., knobs) for the burner controls. The Kenmore has a 10" diameter large burner on the right front and an 8" burner on the left which (as with the GE models) should be good for canning. The use and care manuals specifically discuss canning. So does the Frigidaire slide-in. There is an Electrolux IQ version of the freestanding range, EI30IF40LS, with some trade-offs. The two right side burners are 7" in diameter, so somewhat smaller. They are bridgeable/linkable into one big, rectangular burner but it is not clear how well that would work for canning. The Elux also has more heat levels at the low end of the burner heat setting scal giving finer control for simmering type cooking. It uses all touchpad controls on the backsplash. As for canning -- induction-capable water bath canners are readily available and inexpensive if your current kettles are not induction capable. Pressure-canners are a different matter. Basically, for domestic use, all of the readily available large-capacity pressure-canners (Presto 16 qt and 24 quart, All-American 16 to 40 quart models) are aluminum and are not induction capable. (Fill them with water and filled jars, a stainless steel pressure unit would be too heavy to lift.) If you can work with smaller quantities for pressure canners, Fagor has several that can handle 4 quart jars at a time and the biggest Kuhn Rikon (12 quart capacity) will hold 5 quart jars at a time for pressure canning. (Costco.com has a Fagor "Rapida" 10-quart PC with a canning kit for $99).
...See More
Kitchen- What do you think? Rightsizing and remodeling...
Q
Comments (7)
First impressions: the range is so huge - it is out of proportion to the space. But if you must have it, so be it. What it does is severely cut into your usable prep and storage space. First, I can tell you from painful experience that 12" upper cabinets are virtually useless. Imagine working at the range: where will you keep cooking utensils, spices, potholders? Turning around to the island would be a pain. Your primary prep space will be between the sink and range - and that's where you plopped the drawer MW. That might be better in the island, across from the fridge. I agree with the suggestions to take the cabinets to the ceiling, and get rid of the upper cabinet to the counter. Carefully consider - and plan in as much detail as possible - where you will store things in this kitchen, from dishes and pots and pans to towels, bags and wraps, leftover containers. The more you can nail down where things need to go to be most efficient, the better you can plan your layout for optimal function.
...See More
plllog
16 years ago
Does it have to be a range? Because it sounds like you could get what you want with a Wolf rangetop and quality wall ovens.
kat_ofhb
16 years ago
What, no love for Thermador? I've had a PG36 installed in one of my properties for one year now with no problems.
alku05
16 years ago
Plllog makes a good point. That's exactly what we did. We have a Bluestar rangetop and separate wall ovens. That way we got all of the burner power that Bluestar specializes in, but no risk of the hot toe kicks that pro gas ovens can have.
mccall
16 years ago
I have the 30" Bluestar and I back four shelves of cookies using convection and never have a problem nor do I have to move them at all, so I wonder if it is an individual problem.
jammer369
Original Author
16 years ago
I have thought long and hard about going with a separate cooktop and ovens. My only concern was the venting for the broiler in the ovens. This will not be a complete overhaul of the kitchen, just removing a couple of cabinets to fit the range/cooktop in. Before I started looking at the pro-style ranges, I always thought I would get a drop-in cooktop and build a wall oven cabinet to hold dual ovens.

I haven't started to look for wall-ovens but I do think that is the only way I am going to be completely satisfied. Maybe a wolf/BS cooktop to get the great open burners and then find a dual electric wall oven setup since I already have gas and a 220v line. Any wall oven that you would recommend. I would really like to have an infrared broiler.

Thanks,
Troy
keitel
16 years ago
My experience has been the the Wolf AG baked more evenly than the Bluestar but not to a point that cancels out the inarguable superiority of the BS burners and top configuration. The Bluestar gets much, much hotter than the Wolf did as well. I hate to admit this, but without hesitation, I'd say that the entire front, with the exception of the door handle, gets dangerously hot.
jwebtx
16 years ago
"dangerously hot" is concerning. cook top and wall ovens are not an option for our small kitchen.

are we talking seriously burn a toddler hot? emergency room hot? which model do you have? anyone else find it dangerously hot?
cpovey
16 years ago
In my 2+ years of experience with my Bluestar range, the outside of the range does not get real hot, except when the range operates at 400 F or higher. Since most cooking is done around 350 F, it is not a serious problem, in my mind.

Since the range is UL listed, I doubt that the range gets 'dangerously hot', at least from a scientific point-of-view. And by that I mean is the stove hot enough to truly burn a normal human (child or infant). IMHO, they could not get the UL listing and be dangerous.
User
16 years ago
I bake with and without convection in my Bluestar oven and I've had good, even heat. I don't have to turn the cookies, or breads.

The knobs and controls,the oven handle, never get hot. But the oven door and kick plate that is below get quite hot especially baking bread at 500 degrees.. As stated above, much less heat is noticeable at below 400 degrees.
jwebtx
16 years ago
alex, would you buy again?

any other ranges have the hot problem or is this isolated to BS?
ellene613
16 years ago
I also have a Bluestar and I think the door heat isn't a problem at 400 degrees and lower. Other ranges also get hot; there were several posts about hot DCS doors and kickplates over a year ago. My Bluestar oven cooks very evenly, and the IR broiler is terrific.

Touching the door for a split second will not mean a trip to the emergency room. When a child touches an oven door and it's hot, his/her natural reaction is to draw away quickly. This is a good thing. Kitchens are full of dangerous tools and equipment and I never wanted my kids to have a false sense of security around ovens, ranges, cooktops, knives, hot water urns, food processors, garbage disposals, etc. "Hot," "dangerous," and "sharp" are important concepts for toddlers to learn.
keitel
16 years ago
You can qualify it however you want. The fact is that at 400 degrees I cannot keep my hand on any part of the front (glass included) for more than a split second without singificant pain that forces me to pull my hand away. The kickplate is even hotter. Do with that information what you will.

Having said that, I would buy the BS again (and I have a 16 month old son) because I love its near-perfect performance, but you might as well know the facts beforehand.

My dream range

Comments (14)

jwebtx

alku05

Related Discussions

plllog

kat_ofhb

alku05

mccall

jammer369
Original Author

keitel

jwebtx

cpovey

User

jwebtx

ellene613

keitel

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

My dream range

Comments (14)

Related Discussions

jammer369Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

jammer369
Original Author