Like you, I've been experimenting. From reading Eliot Coleman, I thought originally I could plant in early September and get a crop under a low tunnel. Not so. I live on a mountain side and have a cool summer. Starting in early September, with already cool temperatures, is just too late. So I planted mid-August, and found that was still too late except for carrots. And the kale NEVER matures that late. I have been puting that in first thing in the spring for the last couple of years. This year I planted most everything the last week of July and the first week of August. If I get a chance, I will also pick up a pack of lettuce transplants and a pack of chard transplants (one greenhouse in the area has a clue about fall gardening) and put them in this coming week. I also plan to sow another bed of carrots and turnips this week or next weekend. We never have enough carrots to make it though the winter! ;-) Good luck with your fall garden. I'm getting to prefer this season, even on my mountain side. Catherine

I'm in Sunset zone 17, 25 miles east from SF, so we get a few more 'near-frost' days than the City but it's still very temperate (in the summer we're at the edge of the fog belt). This winter with the wild swings from warm moist rains to dry cold spells, the leaves have barely fallen off the liquidambers yet the magnolia trees are already in full bloom in most places -- normally they flower in mid-January. Last week I just cleaned up the yellowing leaves off the clumping daylilies, only to discover vigorous new growth already pushing up. The ranunculus and freesias have already started putting out lots of growth and they will bloom in another month unless we get a big January chill. The weekend after Thanksgiving was perfect gardening weather -- dry and in the low 60's. I got a head start then on pruning, weeding and planting some container plants I had been holding for the start of the rainy season. With a cottage style garden, I have so many different kinds of plants, cleanup is pretty much year-round. But I figure that's the price of having a garden that stays evergreen and flowers all year-round, too, so it evens out. The REALLY important thing is to remember that this is Sluggo time -- those snails are multiplying even as we type, lol!!!

I remember when the afro was popular and I asked my Mom if I could have one and she said no. I was in the 7th grade and thought how mean. Well when I was a freshman(14) in high school, I asked again and she told me that I could do it IF I was responsible about it and kept it neat and always looked presentable. I remember it as one of my first big decisions and I was so proud of the fact that she had enough faith in me that I would do the right thing and I did. Fast forward a gazillion years later and my D son asked if he could grow his hair out so that he could wear it braided. At the time he was 14 and I remembered the encounters with my Mom and I said the same thing to him. My hubby immediately said no and we had a family meeting and we made it clear that if he didn't take care of his hair AND save up the money to pay for getting it braided himself, then it would be cut off. Well my son is now almost 22 with hair below his shoulders and he is very responsible about taking care of his hair. Actually he is almost obsessed about it :-) That was one of the first real mature decisions for him, just like it was for me. I think depending on the maturity level of the kid, 14 is not too young to start experimenting with hair. As long as it is made clear to the kid what the potential ramifications are, then I think it is fine. I think we as adults have to remember what it is like to be that age and struggle with individuality vs what's popular and how hard it can be for teenagers. It is just hair and it will grow back. I have had every imaginable hairstyle under the sun,afro, long, short, asymmetrical, mullet and braids. Each style represented me during a particular period and I'm glad that I had the opportunity to do different things. We have to support, be honest but let them discover who they are. Oh yeah one other thing, as soon as my son started growing facial hair, he loved it and I hated it. He would let it grow long and I would beg for him to please shave and my hubby gently reminded ME about letting him express his individuality :-) To me he looked like Grizzly Adams but to my son it made him look older. Ughh.... So the running joke between us was that I would call him Grizzly but if he wanted to look like a mountaim man, that was his choice. Again fast forward a few years and he has a very nice goatee that is now well manicured and he looks great. I remembered my own experience and let him be and he eventually grew out of the Grizzly Adams look. Thank goodness!

@ justmetoo----His now 21 year old son assaulted me, not the one that lives with us now. His mother does feed him stories and has for years let them in on the finances and done everything in her power to cause trouble and discontent. To be honest, in my opinion, this all went off the rails with this particular child when WE bought him a car. After my husband and I did this he kept the ca for about 2 months and decided that he didn't want it anymore. I had a truck that we were not using so SS came to me and said he wanted to buy it because, a. he wanted a truck, b. it would teach him what it was like to have financial responsibility. I should have seen through that right there, because I don't know many kids that would say that. I was honestly against it because I saw nothing but trouble, but after all the hounding I got from my husband and SS, I gave in just to shut them up. I stipulated that there would be rules, the vehicle would not be his until he paid it in full, it could not be driven out of the local area further than 50 miles, and since it was in my name and under my insurance he was not to haul all his friends around and he had to let us know where he was going. Keep in mind at the time he was 16, so I don't think I was being to unreasonable. That was fine for about 2 months and suddenly he stopped paying (payments were $50/month), breaking curfew, rude, sassy, etc. He wants to put the vehicle under his mothers insurance, because she doesn't have to know where he goes. Then he decides he doesn't want this vehicle and he wants to sell it and buy something else. Now I have no way of knowing what my husband and his son discussed or concocted, and they are famous for making little deals and leaving me out of the loop. (That's another issue) So, I agreed to allow him to sell it with the stipulation that he only keep what was leftover from what he owed us because I just wanted to be rid of the situation.. Well you would have thought I was asking for his first born, because suddenly he doesn't understand why he has to pay for something that had been given to me in the first place and why did I not just give him the vehicle. So he sells it and when my husband does not turn over the full amount to him, he says, "Mom told me you would not give me what you owed me!" HAHA BINGO! So I told my husband, BM is obviously planting seeds in his head, which you can't reason with this woman she is a nut job, we have tried. He gets a new car with his mother and adds it to his insurance and in even more attitude, he came over one night to fight with my husband about this entire transaction. Do I know if my husband has lied to him? No, I do not, however that is no excuse to talk to your father that way. In my opinion, bottom line SS is mad because he did not get what he wanted from us. This is the same child that asked his Dad to change the custody agreement so that he could stay with us more because he did not like living at his mothers house because everyone fights there all the time, per him. My husband even gave him $400 to register his new car that he got with his BM with the understanding that he would pay it back because he is working. This was 6 months ago and the boy has yet to make any attempt to give us anything, in fact he told his Dad in the past few weeks, "I don't have any F*&^ing money, so why would I give you any? I'm not paying you back." NICE! My husband left his son OVER $300 for lunch, food, etc whilst he has been away, gives him money to eat when the SS is at work, school, to go out with his friends....but the boy has a job, he is already in college. I feel that we have done so much for him and all he does in expect more and disrespect more. He will walk right past me in my home and look right through me and not say a word. I feel that I have done more for him in the 5 years I have been married than his own mother does for him. Its just a mess and it makes me very sad because it was NOT always like this. We used to do things as a family, have dinner together, go on trips and now I can't stand the sight of him.