Assanine. Shame on Baker Creek for using political rhetoric for marketing purposes. Tsk.

Assanine. Shame on Baker Creek for using political rhetoric for marketing purposes. Tsk.

*****

I agree completely.

I don't know where my Baker Creek catalog is from last year but I don't remember any such politicizing in the blurb for this variety last year.

There's absolutely no need at all to introduce politics,global or otherwise, informational or otherwise, with the selling of vegetable and fruit variety seeds.

Just my opinion.

Carolyn

Agree with Carolyn and Trudi. Not to mention they took it out of context of the supposed policy/law. Could be all sorts of possible explanations for why its use is restricted. When does political commentary such as this in a seed catalog of all places become propaganda?

Jill - given some of the info you have found in the Baker Creek catalog lately, I'd suggest you consider moving on to a more reputable information source. ;)

Dave

I agree with all that has been said. I have no idea what this is all about, but think Baker Creek is sounding off where he knows even less. Not my type of seed supplier.
Kenny

The problem with Jere and his crew of radical espousers is they pontificate without regard to facts. That's why many of us stopped participating in the forum over there. Not so much that it was all politics, but that the politics was all puerile or preposterous.

Fact: The Iraqi seed law contains no provision that would prevent a farmer or home gardener from growing Rouge D'Irak, saving the seeds from Rouge D'Irak and planting the saved seeds to regrow Rouge D'Irak.

Under Iraqi seed law it is illegal for Iraqi farmers to re-use seeds harvested from new varieties registered under the law. That means seeds cannot be saved from a crop, or cuttings and other propagations cannot be made from a crop grown from PVPs (Plant Variety Protection germplasm) without the patent-holder (term used loosely) being compensated through an agreed upon method prescribed by the seed law. Yes, this favors corporate control of new germplasm for 20 years for field crops and 25 years for trees and vines. And yes, this is a trend worldwide in the seed industry.

Iraqis may continue to use and save seeds from their traditional seed stocks ... I suppose so long as there is no cross pollination from PVPs that a corporation may prove by DNA testing.

In any case, fact is, an Iraqi can grow Rouge D'Irak on Iraqi soil and from saved seeds without repurchasing each year.

Bill

Forgot to mention ... to qualify for PVP a plant variety must comply with the standards of the UPOV Convention, which requires the variety to new, distinct, uniform and stable. An example of PVP might be Black Pearl pepper, an open pollinated, ornamental variety. There was a Burpee tomato that up until recently carried the PVP emblem on the packets. Maybe it was Super Beefsteak or something like that. Can't remember right now. But I had some older packs that had PVP on them and some newer packs of the same variety that didn't have PVP on them. Maybe the patent expired.

Anyway, there you have it. It's just a way for a breeder to nail down some proprietary rights for commercial purposes.

I think the pol forum at iDig is hilarious, it's like watching a team of perpetual ping pong players; dialogues go back and forth and back and forth until any of the players has a whining hissy fit that they're not getting the ball enough. LOLROF

I guess BC feels confident enough about their market that they can gild the lily in this manner, but little nuances turn off people in a big way.

I too saw this description on this tomato on their site.

I was actually gonna order something else there "toothache plant" quite pretty little flowers, maybe I should find another company, any one have any sugestions.???
Thanks
Spilathes acmella I think it is also called.

I hear you, Dave.

I was very excited when BC offered seeds for "self-fertile purple kiwi." I have them germinating now, but some of the thrill has gone since the resident GW Kiwi expert assures me that there is no such thing as a self-fertile kiwi.

I will no longer rely on Baker Creek as my sole source of information nor will they be my automatic first choice provider for new varieties.

j.

Tumbling,

A few years back I edged one of the tomato gardens with Spilanthes--it's also called 'Eyeball Plant' and it looks just like yellow and mahogany EYEBALLS. Fabulous plant for the front of the border or edging. They are in the Swallowtail catalogue and probably others too. Shop around. Swallowtail wants $3.25 for ten seeds which IMHO is freaking outrageous.

Park Seeds has 10 seeds for $2.95

Here is a link that might be useful: Eyeball Peek-a-Boo seeds

Thanks Trudi & Dave, just looked now & yeah are a bit pricey......but oh quite cute! have a great weekend :)!

I spent thirty or forty dollars with Baker Creek last year. Then I saw the Rouge-D-Irak blurb and discovered that it wasn't accurate. There are other seed companies that sell seeds without another agenda in their catalog. I will not shop with Baker Creek again.

I emailed BC, stating that as a veteran, I felt their ad was unpatriotic and offensive to the men and women in uniform. The reply stated simply that Jerre had read my email and that they hoped I would still shop at their store.

You know, the ad seems simple and innocent enough on the surface. Here's an American company protesting on behalf of the little people around the world. But when it's based on incorrect or twisted facts, then it becomes something that terrorists and insurgents use to generate disorder, mayhem, and Anti-Americanism. AND THAT'S WHEN IT BECOMES DANGEROUS TO OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM.

If I were in uniform and publicly posted or said something like what they have in their ad, I would be court marshalled for aiding and abetting an enemy. With the utmost respect to everyone else, I am compelled to take a personal stand.

Beginning now, they (Baker Creek) don't have, nor will they ever have, anything that I'll ever need. I've made my last post on their forum and if asked, will not recommend them to anyone for anything. IMHO, their current business practices are at best naive, and at worse, deceptive, predatory, and dangerous - IMHO.

I will ask a friend of mine in the State Department to look at this ad (if they haven't already), and will also send it to another friend at the local ABC TV affiliate's news department for whatever news-worthiness it may have.

As much as I don't like him, this might be a good one for Limbaugh. I believe I heard once that his radio shows are mostly based in Atlanta.

Ted
USAF Retired
United States Patiot
Taking a Stand

Ted,

First, thank you for your service to our country.

Secondly, while I understand your disappointment and your outrage, you should probably take Jere and his rag tag band of armchair activists for what they're really worth. Z-I-P!

After all, how can you really expect a group of isolationist provencials with the combined intellect of a cave full of Neanderthals to do anything other than (in the case of Rouge d'Irak) regurgitate some other radical's misconstruing of fact ... which is exactly what the seed blurb is.

I had to google this since I had heard the same from a different source, that Iraqi farmers were only allowed to plant from the varieties sold by Monsanto and other multinational corporations. The article I attach clarifies the issue. Iraqi farmers are still 'allowed' to grow and save seed from their own traditional varieties. If they do purchase the 'new' also called 'protected' seeds (a euphemism used by seed corporations) then they are not allowed to save seeds for the next 20 or 25 years, depending on type of crop, they have to keep paying the corporations (for more seed I guess?). Sad to think that Mesopotamia was the birth place of agriculture, and now it is ruled by corporate greed. Hopefully they will be smart and continue to use their traditional seeds.

Here is a link that might be useful: 'protected' seeds in Irak

Thank YOU, Bill. I don't do much fence riding. I think there's enough availability of good seed at other sources and that means that I just don't have to spend any money at Baker Creek. I'm not outraged. I'm disappointed. I can't stand greed and predation, even when ignorance and especially when arrogance is in the stimulus.

Ted, who is done with this subject and moving on to REAL tomatoes.

I'm seeing a lot more politics on this thread than that one letter could ever bring.

This isn't an attack on anyone except maybe "Big Agriculture" and how it uses political influence AS POLICY to make deals in emerging economy countries. I have a similar viewpoint based on real-life discussions with farmers and children of farmers from all over the Middle East and northern/north-west Africa.

We're allowed to have viewpoints and inject them into our businesses (I'm not associated with Baker Creek) and we have to take the backlash for the views. That happens. That's cool.

Count me in for "absolutely not outraged or bothered" by the letter.

Also, how this is about soldiers is way beyond me...I've read this 10 time+ and bringing fighting men/women into this is a broad grasp that stinks of the politicizing that they're evidently horrified by. The goal of the letter seems to be co-opted by some here (motivation unknown) to be about the war without thinking beyond that and realizing there is a government being formed with world corporate influence. Like it or not...the US has a big say of what's going on with the rebuilding and agriculture policy is one they're helping shape and have shaped in other countries. There are more things going on in Iraq than our fighting men and women. They are people, too.

Also...

Having a view like Jere's in agriculture is far from marketing unless alienating 45-55% of your potential audience over a political view with little to do with what you're selling is suddenly a hot marketing tool. (smile)

As a consumer the only thing that really bothers me is 1 sentence in the paragraph which is an eye rolling overstatement...

"Then what I am sending are the last tomato seeds coming from this country."

The political stuff some are caught up on should be directed at an over simplification and half-truth of that one sentence, imo.

nc-crn - Since you don't take private messages here, I'll have to put this in the public arena.

I would ask you two questions.

Have you ever served this country in uniform?

Have you ever been in a country where terrorist factions are taking a fragment of a statement out of context and is using it frenzy up a mob and excite them to kill Americans?

If not, then you just don't know how little it takes to generate body bags.

I don't buy into that argument...just as you evidently don't buy into mine.

Simply talking about Iraq is bigger than "our side". There's 25-30 million people there who are shaping an agriculture policy.

Body bags have little to do with that.

As far as wanting to not bring up a negative view of a war in the public because it might become propaganda...there is no way I'd want to live anywhere you can't question how our government sees fit to deploy our forces and spend our money. I don't think that's what this country had in mind when it was having that "Revolution" even though we were still locking people up for speaking out in public against the war as recently as WW1 under W.Wilson.

Before someone calls me a nuclear powered commie nazi facist terrorist enabler sympathizer un-American pinko carpetbagger...or whatever...

My friends in the service in iraq, afgh, germany, and out on "Random Boat #281" know I support them no matter what group of guys in suits tell their bosses to go make them do. They understand where I'm coming from even if some don't buy into all my views. They support some or my views, simply understand my views on other things, and outright reject some.

If I fall into a bad area with some people for things I see no issue over...well, that stuff happens. I'm not a alone and people on "the other side" aren't alone. I'm just glad both sides and all sides in between have a chance to be heard without skulls being cracked, jail time, or death.

Wow...this topic has really turned policital.

All I know is that I fully support free speech. Our country was founded on it. BC has the right to put whatever in there that they want. I also have the right to not buy their seeds. I like the pictures in their catalogs but I don't support their views, therefore I won't buy from them. It's all about freedom. Wish we had more of it, not less, as I fear that we're getting ourselves into.

Y'all, I'm a Vet, U. S. Army, 1965-1969, and Baker Creek ain't worth all this. Let's talk plantin' something and watchin' it grow.

A few questions.

Has anyone grown any of the various tomatoes, melons, whatever else Baker Creek offers as "Iraqi" seeds?

If so, are any of the "Iraqi" varieties offered by Baker Creek worth saving?

Does anyone watch a cable news broadcast or radio talk show that conflicts with your particular political point of view? Choose one: Hardball, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann's Countdown, Bill O'Reilly's No Spin Zone, Rush Limbaugh's Hillbilly Heroin Hour, or any number of other opinionated spin doctors.

Sometimes someone in TV, print, or radio media makes my blood boil over with their rediculous blather. You too?

But I still read the rags, watch the wasteland, listen to the talk shows, don't you?

My suggestion is to use Baker Creek for whatever benefits you in the way of seeds. There are few very interesting melons, cukes, and tomatoes available there. Use the resource. That's exactly what Jere Gettle is doing with you. Using you as a resource (cash cow). Don't let his little boy philosophy flame your hindquarters.

May prosperity and peace rain down on America in 2009, and may our women and men in service overseas return safely and soon.

Humorous marketing gimmick. No big deal. If some sucker falls for it, so be it. Most marketing is BS anyway.

Seedboy you are right on and what I said on another forum. Almost every commercial you see on TV is over the top and most advertisements are. Sadly those who can catch a buyers eye has the best chance of completing that sale. From all my buying of seeds from many sources in the last 3 years I can only think of one off the top of my head that don't go over the top with their descriptions. When they sell 300 tomato varieties and everyone is exceptional, to die for, or a former president's favortie, ect common sense tells you at least some of it is old folk stories and hyped descriptions. Then personal preferences also come into play. My "to die for veggie" might be a spitter to you. I just discount it as advertisement BS and buy it if it is something I have researched and want and go on if not. In my opinion what has created the stir here is because of the reference to Iraq. I can understand both sides. And from what I understand from reading what volunteers and others who have been over there said the laws and rules of what the people are being told they can do vary greatly from one area to another. And then like everywhere there are those who over react. I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle here. The end result is we each have the right to buy where we want. I respect everyones opinions and rights. I did buy some I wanted from BC as I've received good service in the past. As a Christian it would be like me demanding that everyone boycott the stores who advertise the Holiday season but don't mention Christmas. So regardless of your views I wish each one of you a Happy and prosperous 09. JD

Don't know about BC, never even bought anything from them. Anyone knows what's the tomato like?. Let's not lose sight what this forum is about. Monsanto on the other hand should not be off limits for anyone concerned with preservation of seeds.

God Bless America and God bless are fighting men and women and these God Da*#%d seeds better germinate. HEHEHE LoL.

Dale

My perspective as a currently serving member of the Army is that I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the United States. Personally, my favorite part of the Constitution is the First Amendment. Let Baker Creek say whatever they want, even if it is ignorant, misguided or politically motivated. We need to stop finding bugbears in free speech.

I recently received a Baker Creek catalog. As a veteran of the U.S. Army, I fully support their right to free speech. Having said that, I think it is beyond dumb for them to politicize their catalog. They should stick to selling seeds and leave the politics to the politicians. Not to mention the fact that what they are saying about the Iraq people growing and saving seeds is pure, unadulterated b.s.

This is hysterically funny, and a perfect example of how these "rumors" get started.
So the numb brains at Baker Creek heard just enough about the story to twist it to fit they way they think. LOL

Baked Brain Creek said:
"'This variety is endangered even in its own country,"

TYLCV is rampant over there, that's where it came from, Bahrain, Cyprus, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Oman - everywhere.

It's endangered because it's dying. LOL
This variety is endangered even in its own country, because almost all tomatoes are endangered over there because of TYLCV.

Baked Brain said again:
"Under the new law, Iraqi farmers must only plant seeds from 'protected varieties' from international corporations"

Talk about getting the words out of place!

Don't even know where to go with that one.
and since the virus can be tranmitted from insect to insect, they are trying to eliminate the source plant by planting types of plants that their resistance does not harbor the virus. They are trying to eliminate the source so that tomatoes will grow at all.

The "protected" varieties are seed from companies like Hazera that has developed plants resistant to the virus and do not spread the virus. They all hold patents on these plants and seeds.

Baked Brain Boys said:
" Is this ""our"" unique way of making democracy?"

No it's the unique way that capitalism works
and again they completely neglected to mention that the companies that have developed the TYLCV resistant hybrids - are not American companies. Most of them are based in muslim countries.
Except for Hazera, which is an Israeli company - supplying them with free seed.
So their little jab at their country might work if everyone else was as brain dead.

Also, they totally neglected to mention that there are tons of farm aid programs going on to supply the farmers with free seed - from companies like Hazera, etc.

How do I know all this?

Our entire island is fighting ToYLCV again this year. We have made several calls to Hazera and other suppliers of TYLCV seed.
Plus done tons of research on TYLCV.

Wow, some people here have amazing deductive reasoning abilities to draw some of the ridiculous conclusions being made here. My goodness. Geeze chill out, folks.

TY corie22 - a little science to counteract the BC whine is most appreciated. TY, TY, TY. Of course it's always the "evil" corporations evil doings the "little" organi-business is looking to right (def of "evil corp" = bigger than whoever is whining's toybox). Hmmmph, suppose it netted them some sales, not mine.

I'll buy elsewhere. No shortage of vendors. Many better than Baker Creek.