So I know this is an old thread, but it's sitting here near the top of the list and perhaps someone will see it and they can weigh in on whether or not I'm completely off base (which is a very plausible scenario). I apologize if anything, or everything I say has already been said (with nearly 60 replies and a decade of discussion I admit I did not read everything) or if I am missing the point entirely. First of all, I am not as passionate about beans as others. I know the couple of varieties I like and grow well in my garden which I save seed from. I am not much of genealogist, nor do I have the extensive knowledge on the history of beans, let alone greasy beans, that others here do have. I do however have a working understanding of biology and genetics genetics as well as history so take my opinion (I can not stress that word enough here) for what its worth. When biologists looks for point of origin of anything, one of the common and most precise ways of doing so is at the genetic level. At what locality is there the greatest degree of genetic difference is where you usually wind up with your answer. In humans this is relatively "easy". You can trace Y-chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA variations to different points of origin by detecting the frequency of that variation amongst different populations. Since sex determination is far different in plant reproduction then human, I'm pretty sure that Y-DNA would be out of the question. mtDNA on the other hand I'm fairly sure is pretty standard across eukaryotic organisms and is often used in the phylogeny of many species across different kingdoms. If we all had easy access to sequencing the greasy bean genome, this question would have been answered long ago. Unfortunately this would require boocoo dollars and no shortage of devoted individuals to dedicate themselves to the task, so, as of this time, the question is not answerable by these methods. So what we have to go on is a little less precise but we can definitely arrive at some answers, possibly settle on one that we can all agree on. The nature of heirloom cultivars is such that so much of we know about them comes from memory. In some cases we can trace the ancestry of them very well because their history is well documented by those who created them. For instance we know that W. Atlee Burpee developed many strains of vegetables for his seed company and these developments were recorded and passed through history as primary sources and hard evidence. These cultivars are generally not as old as those we know less about. Those which have a much murkier history are much harder to trace, possibly impossible with any degree of certainty. Their stories are held in the respective memories of those who grow them. Often, the final word on the specific cultivar is "my family has grown them for generations" or "as long as I can remember." This is not a very definite answer since we have no idea if their great great great grandfather got the seeds from someone else or purposely/inadvertently developed them himself. If, in the former case, from whom did he get them from and where did they get it from? For all we know, a man moved from New York to Georgia and sold his new neighbor some seeds that brought with him. The neighbor then shared with others and eventually this new town became a hotspot for this cultivar and it's lineage. If no one bothered to record the transactions, we may erroneously come to the conclusion that this cultivar is a native of Georgia, rather then New York which is the true origin of it. Or perhaps our New Yorker was an immigrant who had originally brought the seeds with him from Europe, thus again, a point of origin that may be lost forever. We similarly can't go by name alone since often the name of the cultivar changes depending on who is growing and their own personal story tied to it. Another problem we have is once again tied to family memories and stories. If you've ever delved into your family history, you know that it is a lot like the game telephone. Your great aunt Millie tells you a story about your great great grandfather that she heard from her grandmother and your great Aunt Sally tells you the same story that is completely different and she heard it from her Aunt Rosie. Such is the case with the genealogy of our plants. So how CAN we arrive at a logical conclusion about the history of our prized veggies? I think the closest we can come is by paralleling our very first way of using genetic frequency and variation with the morphology that is a result of it. It is often that these visual clues that determines whether what we are growing is a distinct cultivar or just a differently named one of the same. In which location do we see the least variation in the phenotype of the bean? It is very likely that wherever we find the least difference, whether it be a county, a single state or a tri-state area, is where the bean came from. In this particular story, we may not be able to pinpoint it to one state. From what I have read, this type of bean traces it's roots to pre-Columbian America long before the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and North Carolina were ever dreamed up. The Cherokee people who are the likely source of the bean would have traveled throughout the region without regards borders of states that would be drawn generations later. It might be that we find the point of origin in a much broader area that encompasses several states rather then just one and we would have to be happy with that answer I think. A perfect example of this was when I was researching the origin of a breed of chicken that has an equally confused history as that of our greasy bean. Through scoring primary resource documents from the mid-19th century I was able to find that at the time of its conception, this particular breed was the source of an immense amount of controversy and there was no definitive answer, even in it's early days. I was able to narrow it down to about 2 or 3 different possibilities but all the same I was forced to concede that mystery will likely never be solved with 100% accuracy (at least not by me). There were simply too many conflicting stories and even more unanswered questions that have been taken to grave. There are a HUGE number of variables that I haven't mentioned, to be sure. But this is a simple breakdown of how I feel that we can at least start and then bring up the all the different possibilities as they arise.

I took my sister to El Mansour Restaurant on Clement Street when she came to visit me in 1978. (It is not far from Aziza.) I had learned of it from an Algerian guy who was in my Spanish conversation class at City College, but I have not yet been to Aziza - it wasn't there when I lived in S.F. The guy in my class had also recommended an Algerian restaurant, but it was not open the day that my sister and I went out. I much prefer Algerian food to Moroccan, but it is also more difficult to find. Have you been to El Mansour? I'm wondering if it is as good as it was when I went there decades ago! Have you found any new Algerian restaurants in S.F.? I like it because it has even more of a French influence. I met another Algerian in L.A. who is a teacher at the Cordon Bleu in Pasadena, and I've gotten some really good recipes from him. Lars P.S. If this message sounds weird or "off", it is because I am on pain killers for my back!

Did some touring in the Endless Mountains and along the renowned Route 6 corridor of beautiful north central Pennsylvania recently. Fall color is still a week to 10 days away, but it is still a gorgeous part of our country. The Kinzua viaduct that was partially blown over several years ago. Me riding out to the end of the viaduct. Back in the '60's we came here often to walk across the bridge when there was nothing but the tracks...no boardwalk, no railing on the sides, just walked on the ties looking down between them to the ground 301 feet below. At the end. A large section of the floor behind me is glass so you can walk on it and look down through to see what is 301 feet below. DH was in charge of the camera, can't imagine why he didn't take a picture of it! What I can see off the end. The sections of the bridge that blew down.

Beautiful pond and landscaping. Sorry to hear about your friends fractures. Ouch. There have been a few articles in the last couple of weeks about (just one type) dangerous amoebas that can be found in warm ponds or fresh water. That species of amoeba is common and generally poses no problems for humans, unless it enters human nasal passages by splashed or inhaled water. Then, it is almost always deadly. The complex issue of how and why this simple organism can destroy a human in just a few days. It’s a biologically fascinating but gruesome series of steps. And a cautionary news point. Be very careful to not inhale or splash or accidentally get warm pond water into your nose. Your pond may be below the temperature for this organism. Here’s a link to an article that explains the biological mechanism. https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/brain-eating-amoeba-kills-again-heres-how-it-kills-and-how-to-avoid-it/?comments=1&post=37713315 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri