So I got seeds for this as a bonus in a trade, and I am wondering if anyone knows anything about it... all I've been able to find out is that it's an oxheart type and is, strangely enough, pink =) I loved the one oxheart (Danko) I tried growing this year, and I generally like pink tomatoes... so I am wondering if I should add this to my "short list" of must-grows for next year.
Does anyone know if this one has any special characteristics? Is it early? prolific? especially tasty? how big? determinate/indeterminate? anything else...

Thanks!!
Lori

Lori, quite a few years ago I introduced a pink PL beefsteak called Lithuanian so I was also interested in growing Lithuanian Crested Pink, and did,

It's a late season variety, indet, RL with wispy foliage, with about one pound pink heart shaped fruits. I thought taste was darn good but not as good as some other hearts I've grown.

I'm not sure why you were surprised to find it was pink. There are lots and lots of pink heat shaped varieties. ( smile)

Apparently fruit size can be variable for some who have grown it. For most hear varieteis I've grown, with some exceptions with higher yields, I'd say the yield is good, and I'd say the same about this one as well. IMO hearts are to be grown primarily for taste and not production.

Above you mentioned the variety Danko, which is a variety I introduced two years ago, and you spoke of it in terms of pink tomatoes.

But.....it's a medium sized RED heart and one that I really like very much both for taste and production.

Carolyn

Hi Carolyn,

Thanks so much for all the info!

The comment about it being pink was gentle poking-fun-at-myself at the pathetic results of my research ;) I figured from the name that it was pink!

I did get red tomatoes from my Danko plant... just mentioned it as my first attempt with oxhearts. I really liked it too, so thank you for introducing it! =)

If you had to pick one, what is your favorite heart tomato? I was considering these two for my list next year, but I am limiting myself to 4-5 "regular" tomato plants (plus a couple cherries and some pastes), so they have to be "darn good" to make the list! (Currently, that consists of Brandywine Sudduth's, Cherokee Purple or Indian Stripe, and probably Green Giant.)

Lori

If you had to pick one, what is your favorite heart tomato? I was considering these two for my list next year, but I am limiting myself to 4-5 "regular" tomato plants (plus a couple cherries and some pastes), so they have to be "darn good" to make the list! (Currently, that consists of Brandywine Sudduth's, Cherokee Purple or Indian Stripe, and probably Green Giant.)

*****

Lori, I am genetically incapable of listing just ONE favorite heart variety. If you want me to list a few faves, I can do that, but not just ONE. LOL

When you say, above, that you're considering "these two" for next year, do you mean Danko and the Lithuanian one?

if it were me, not that you asked, ahem, I'd try Indian Stripe instead of CP and Cherokee Green instead of Green Giant, but your choice entirely. ( smile)

Carolyn

I would love to hear about a few of your favorites =) And if you think there's a better choice than Danko (although I am happy with that one!), I would love to hear what you would recommend for an early variety, as that is currently the early one on my list.

I WAS thinking of trying Cherokee Green instead of Green Giant, maybe I will go ahead and do that! What is the difference between the two?

As for Indian Stripe, maybe it was just the horrible tomato weather this year, but I tried it and it just didn't do great. The fruits looked better than CP (which I grew last year)--more uniform and less cracking--but the taste was just ok and it didn't yield much. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to compare "apples to apples", because while IS was at home, my CP was planted at my community plot (surrounded by plots full of big-box-store plants) and succumbed to late blight VERY early. I had thought about trying Indian Stripe again just because so many people have raved about it... just my personal experience that's making me hesitant.

Do you mind if I ask about one other variety? I grew Hawaiian Pineapple this year, and it was very prolific and pretty, excellent texture, but the taste just wasn't there. Do you think that might have been the weather? Have you grown this one and liked it? Are yellow/orange varieties just kind of bland in general?

And no worries, I usually like unsolicited advice, as I feel it helps me make more informed decisions =)

Lori

Hey Lori;First of all i live within a couple of blocks from the pacific ocean in Santa Monica CA. We have perfect tomato weather from mid Feb- late Dec.
I grew Hawaiian Pineapple a few years ago. It was profoundly productive but the taste was bland, insipid and overly sweet. This is also true with All Yellow, Orange, White and Bi-colours.
I too was disappointed with Indian Stripe as it was way too much like Cher/Pur.and the taste not that great.
Sometimes I forget to look at who is doing "all the Great Press" on a variety and grow it only to be disappointed...again.
Cherokee Green is a better choice, as I found that Green Giant was also bland and insipid. It did have a slight "melon" taste but this is not what I am looking for in a Tomato. I personally like Spears Tennessee Green for GWR.
If You want a really Great tasting Tomato you should try ROSE Huge beefsteak few seeds will out perform Brandywine (SS) and tastes better too. I got my seeds from Clemson Edu.There are several hundred seeds in the packet. I have most of their varieties and All of their bean collection. You might als want to try their "Greasy Cutshort" beans, you'll be glad you did.

Here is a link that might be useful: Clemson/edu

Hi zebraman,

Thanks for that input... I actually did grow White Striped Greasy Cutshort beans this year and they were very tasty =) Fun, too!

I have suddenly been hearing about Rose online, I had not even heard of it prior to the last week or two. I may have to look into that one. Also, why do you prefer Spears Tennessee Green to Cherokee Green?

I do have to wonder if climate has something to do with tomato taste. Maybe some of the tomatoes that are bland to us develop more intense flavor in hotter areas? I live next to a lake, so that moderates the microclimate of my yard a bit... cooler nights and milder summers... a bit more "coastal" in feel than other areas of north Jersey.

I am never going to be able to narrow down my list! Last year I went way overboard, and I am determined not to do that again this year... since I do like other veggies as well =)

Lori

Spears TG is really productive and tastes better than Ch.Green. I have grown a cou[ple of dozen bi-coloured vars and all are bland and overly sweet.
You can't go wrong with Rose, but remember that it is a late variety so grow others as well. I always plant at least 10-15 plants as you only get 10-14 seeds per tomato (8-10)oz fruit.Seeds are located in a couple of locules just under the skin and the rest of the tomato is solid flesh.

Lori, I haven't grown Hawaiian Pineapple so I can't speak to that variety at all.

Zebra wrote:
Sometimes I forget to look at who is doing "all the Great Press" on a variety and grow it only to be disappointed...again.

Zebra is referring to me since I was the one who introduced Indian Stripe but I'm certainly not the only one who likes it very much and mentions it often and there are several threads here at GW, not started by me, about it as well as threads at other sites where I read, again, none of them started by me, and sometimes post where folks have been very pleased with it and you can also look at the current thread on Cherokee Purple here at GW on this first page and see that someone else mentioned it before me. LOL

I'm sorry it didn't work well for you this season.

As for green when ripes , next to hearts they're my next favorite group of tomatoes and I've grown many many varieties. Nothing wrong with the Spears one and many others, I just prefer the taste of Cherokee Green for a large one and Green Doctors is a great gw ripe cherry and no, I didn't introduce that one. (smile)

Now, as to hearts.

Reds

Danko
German Red Strawberry
Linnie's Oxheart
Indiana Red
Rief Red heart

Pinks

Nicky Crain
Kosovo
Ukranian Heart
Anna Maria's Heart

... are just a few of the reds and pinks I like. I didn't mention the one white heart which is pretty bland, nor did I mention any orange/ gold ones. Maybe best to start with the reds and pinks first? There is one black heart called Brad's Black Heart, derived from Black Krim, and I do like Brad's Black Heart although the whole category of so called blacks are not my favorite group of tomatoes, with a few exceptions.

Carolyn

No Missy; "Zebra" is not referring to you. All the tomatoes in your book as well as the var.s that you are always hawking tend to be on the sweet side and I avoid these at all costs.
And as far as the others go on the Cherokee Purple thread most of them post at Tvile and know that they will be banned from that site if they disagree with you here. Which is rather sad and pathetic.
Actually I should Thank you for all the Great tomatoes that I have grown from William Woys Weaver as I probably wouldn't have even known about many of these, including the Shah Mikado and the True Black Brandywine-(PL).

And as far as the others go on the Cherokee Purple thread most of them post at Tvile and know that they will be banned from that site if they disagree with you here. Which is rather sad and pathetic.

*****

Your above comment is quite inappropriate but as long as you posted it publicly I'll answer publicy.

I know for a FACT that the following sites ban folks ONLY for their behavior at that site and not what a person does at another site.

And I just realized that if I refer to another site here at GW that I too could be banned b'c of their rules here.

Lets just say that I know where you've posted in the past and I know where you're posting now,and I mean the sites I visit b/c there are others where you participate that I don't go, and NO site at which I participate bans folks for their behavior at sites other than where possible infractions occured.

Good heavens, folks disagree with my opinions quite a bit and why shouldn't they since each of us has our own opinions about ALL aspects of tomato growing and should speak up in a constructive manner when we disagree.

If someone flames someone here at GW or posts inappropriately according to GW guidelines or baits posters here, etc., only GW Mods can make a call, not anyone else from any other site in terms of participation at another site, at least that holds for the sites where I read/post and you know what they are.

Enough already.

Carolyn

Zebraman - Are you talking the white shaw / mikado? LOVE that tomato!

I like Rose a lot too, although I have a shorter season, so try to go with earlier tomatoes.

I have found that some years, the bi-colors are great - sweet, juicy, and mild - but not too mild. Other years, they are just sweet and mild - UGH! If they weren't so pretty, I would give up on them altogether.

Is Hawaiian Pineapple different from Pineapple, or just a clever spin on the name by seed / plant companies?

Hey Ekgrows; Yes I am talking about the "Shah" which was a white/yellow sport of "Mikado" So technically it shouldn't be called Shah Mikado however this is how it is refered to now. This is really just splitting hairs on the backs of fleas.
The Hawaiian Pineapple is less marbled than Pineapple and has a sharper more acidic taste (somewhat).Pineapple has larger fruit and stronger marbling .

Are you talking the white shaw / mikado? LOVE that tomato!

*****

PLease accept an alternative opinion.

The variety was first listed in the SSE Yearbook and continues to be listed as:

Shah ( Mikado White) Potato Leaf

And those who list it say it bears light yellow fruits in the 3 to maybe 8 oz range. And it was first listed in 1999.

There are also several folks who have large collections of old seed catalogs, I'm not one of them, who have found and posted the information they see and that's that Shah is a large beefsteak variety with a golden color, and has been compared to the well known variety Yellow Brandywine which does have large beefsteak fruits of that color and size and leaf form.

Shah itself as originally known has been considered extinct by many folks for many years.

The variety White Potato Leaf, which has also been listed for many years in the SSE Yearbook has the same fruit size and coloration and leaf form as does what was introduced in 1999 as Shah.

Mikado is a large pink beefsteak with potato leaf foliage, or should be, and is a variety that actually Burpee at one time was claiming to be Brandywine, but then there have been several suggestions about the possible true origin of Brandywine, and I mean the pink one, but to say Pink Brandywine is redundant. I know of no White Mikado and nor do my tomato friends with large collections of seed catalogs who have also done extensive background research. Some even refer to Mikado White as White Brandywine despite the contoversy surrounding even the existance of a Mikado White.

If you'd like to know more about Mikado/Brandywine, etc., there's an excellent article on the history of the various varieties with Brandywine as part of the name at Victory Seeds, written by Craig LeHoullier, who is one of those folks with a large old catalog collection, and also the person who introduced Cherokee Purple, Cherokee Chocolate, and Cherokee Green. Craig wrote the section on the family type Brandywines and I wrote most of the section on those with Brandywine as part of the name that arose from chance cross pollinations and deliberate breeding that are not heirloom varieties.

Aside from any discussions about this variety as Shah, if you like what you have, which is probably White Potato Leaf, then grow it and enjoy it. ( smile)

Carolyn, who notes that there's also a very long thread at another message site about Shah specifically, but GW rules prohibit meantioning other message sites or a person can be banned from GW.

While I had time this AM before I watch tennis from the US Open for the rest of the day I thought I'd link to the original description of Shah from the Henderson Seed Co catalog who introduced it, and that's in the clickable link below.

The variety Mikado is also featured in the clickable link b'c it was the Hendersen Seed Co who also introduced it. It's described as purplish/red but it's also good to know that in the late 1800's the word purple was used to describe pink. So a purplish/red describes a dark pink.

And even today we have Aunt Ginny's Purple, Eva Purple Ball, Prudence Purple and on and on, and all are pink, not purple. The only two varieties I know of that have a purple tinge are Purple Calabash and Noire des Cosebeauf and I suppose one could also include Purple Smudge, either the red or orange fleshed one, but that's a genetic oddity that has just areas of purple on the exterior and the fruits themselves are not purple.

The following two URL's are from Tania's tomato base, one referring to Shah, and one to Shah ( Mikado White)

....... for those who might have an interest in the history of Shah.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Shah_(Mikado_White)_Potato_Leaf

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Shah

Carolyn, and also to note that the original Mikado was pink, but a red version still exists as Mikado Escarlate/Mikado Scarlet. It isn't uncommon to have a pink and red version of the same variety b'c all it means is a single spontaneous mutation of the epidermis color and I maintain a couple of varieties in both red and pink versions but only distribute seeds for the color of the original. There are also two pink versions that are listed in the SSE Yearbook as Mikado and Mikado Violettor.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1389984}}

Hey, I'll take the rap for hawking the virtues of Indian Stripe. My name is Bill Jeffers and I live in Southwest Indiana ... land of usually hot, humid summers, but this year a cool, wet, fungal infected summer.

I first bought Indian Stripe from Victory Seeds in 2005 because Carolyn Male recommended it in a message here at GW and said that too few people were listing it in the Seed Savers Exchange Yearbook.

I first grew Indian Stripe in 2006 in a summer that started out cool and wet with a drowned out garden of 80 tomato plants with lots of late blight, leaf wilts, blossom end rot, and failures. The 10 Indian Stripe plants were not among the failures ... well except for one that couldn't hack the drowned out roots.

The other 9 Indian Stripe plants weathered the very hot, humid July through September conditions, set and ripend plenty of fruit, out performed Cherokee Purple in every regard, and pleased the palate of everyone with whom I shared the tomatoes. Indian Stripe has continued to repeat its exemplary performance year after year regardless of monsoon, drought (severe in 2007 with us having 9.5 inches UNDER normal rainfall), poor soil conditions in three cases (newly tilled shallow poor clay/silt type), etc.

Fast forward to this summer ... way over normal rainfall and way below normal temps. Lots of Septoria and leaf wilts. The two Indian Stripe plants and the two "Indian Zebra" plants outperformed most of the other large fruited varieties other than a couple of vars I'm working on from hand crosses. The overly wet conditions rendered many of the tomatoes watery and bland that are usually among the more flavorful under normal conditions. Indian Stripe (and "Indian Zebra") uniformly were sweet, tomatoey and delicious.

The Indian Stripe I'm growing today are the result of selecting the earliest ripening plants with the larger, more uniform fruit. This is not a strain. This is a selection, and it is outperforming other plants from seed I save from a broader population. All are from the original Victory Seed purchase.

The "Indian Stripe" I'm referring to is from seed I obtained from the son of the originator of Indian Stripe. Clyde Burson, Sr. is the original source of Carolyn Male's seeds she got from a lady who grew up as a neighbor of Mr. Burson in Arkansas about 12 miles north of the Louisiana border. That would explain Indian Stripe's tolerance of hot, humid weather conditions. Bradley tomato was another of Mr. Burson's favorites, and will shrug off the same conditions ... but is not as tasty.

Anyway, Mr. Burson alternately called his favorite tomato "Indian Stripe" and that is what was written on the packet of seeds his son retrieved from the older gentleman's freezer and sent to me. So I keep them separately even though they appear to the naked eye identical to the selection of Indian Stripe I refer to above.

Not one single person to whom I have sent Indian Stripe (selected line) seeds to from Toronto, to South Carolina, to Colorado, to Kansas, to Northern Virginia, to Texas, to a couple of tomato researchers/breeders, on and on, has disagreed ... Indian Stripe is a superior tomato variety. So, yes I spread the news and share the seeds. And I will continue to do so.

By the way, I grew Shah Mikado last year side-by-side with Indian Stripe and others under identical conditions and with identical care. It was pathetic. Wilted early. Yield pathetic. Insipid, sweet, nothing flavor. Pffffft.

I've also grown True Black Brandywine, seeds from Gary in Louisville before it was introduced commercially by Baker Creek. It's a beautiful tomato vine with beautiful tomatoes that taste pretty darn good. I'm not currently growing it because that nitch is taken by "Big Cheef F5," a grow out of Brandywine Sudduth x Unknown black tomato, which is larger, more prolific and tastier.

Carolyn Male, thank you for introducing Indian Stripe and pushing it to commercial availability for all these other lucky gardeners to enjoy. It's a great tomato.

Bill

Sorry, I forgot to mention something ...

Each year, I grow a couple of Indian Stripe plants in containers just as a backup to save seeds, because I send out quite a lot of Indian Stripe seeds, being one of those troublesome promoters of this variety.

I've found that Indian Stripe (and Bradley, by the way) is highly adaptable to container growing. I use 10-gallon, black, blown plastic nursery tubs filled with a cheap, homemade landscape mix of rotted wood chips, rotted horse stall bedding, native clay soil, sand and a bit of agricultural lime. This is a cheap, inferior mix ... not a refined planting medium that folks usually lovingly employ for their potted plants.

I use cheap, Dollar General Store, 6-10-10 flower fertilizer with an occasional booster shot of Miracle-Gro rose formula. I don't water the pots regularly, generally just when the vines show some droop ... probably every 3rd day or so. These are harsh conditions. Indian Stripe is one of the few varieties that take this licking and keep on ticking. I'm certain they would flourish with kinder handling ... like in Earth Boxes or Earthtainers.
Bill

I agree with what Bill just said. And will add a little about my experiences. First let me say I like Indian Stripe a great deal. And what I'm stating is just my opinions and those of a few I let tasteIS and CP . And my original seeds of IS came from Carolyn. I thank her for that. My current seeds of CP came from the person who first shared them I believe. Every year till this year CP had out produced IS and to me and others tasted a little different. With differing opinions about which one tasted best. This year I also grew IS from seeds from Bill. Like he said they tend to be larger and have out yielded CP. And flavor has been very good. I will always grow both. And both are very good. I know many say they can't tell any difference. So again taste is a personal thing that varies with each person.

I hesitate to say anything but will any way. About the banning by other sites for what is said on a different site. The site with a T and a V in the name banned me recently and I hadn't posted there for months. I'm sure it was for a post I made on another site. So yes it does happen. And that is ok. Just like for the truth to be known.

Again thanks to those who made IS and CP available to the rest of us and Bill for sharing his seeds and selection with me. Jay

I hesitate to say anything but will any way. About the banning by other sites for what is said on a different site. The site with a T and a V in the name banned me recently and I hadn't posted there for months. I'm sure it was for a post I made on another site. So yes it does happen. And that is ok. Just like for the truth to be known.

*****

Jay, since you posted that publicly I'm answering you publicly.

I was able to definitively confirm that you are not banned from the other site you refer to and NEVER have been banned from that site.

Carolyn

>>The "Indian Stripe" I'm referring to is from seed I obtained from the son of the originator of Indian Stripe. Clyde Burson, Sr. is the original source of Carolyn Male's seeds she got from a lady who grew up as a neighbor of Mr. Burson in Arkansas about 12 miles north of the Louisiana border. That would explain Indian Stripe's tolerance of hot, humid weather conditions. Bradley tomato was another of Mr. Burson's favorites, and will shrug off the same conditions ... but is not as tasty>>Anyway, Mr. Burson alternately called his favorite tomato "Indian Stripe" and that is what was written on the packet of seeds his son retrieved from the older gentleman's freezer and sent to me. So I keep them separately even though they appear to the naked eye identical to the selection of Indian Stripe I refer to above-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I was typing too fast and didn't proof well enough.

Clyde Burson, Sr. alternately called his favorite tomato Indian Stripe and INDIAN ZEBRA. The packet of seeds his son sent me from the older gentleman's freezer was tagged "Indian Zebra" rather than Indian Stripe. So, I am keeping those separately, but as I said, they appear visually identical. In fact, one plant of the Indian Zebra ripened larger and earlier the same as my "B" selection of Indian Stripe that I sent out to Jay and others last year.

Jay, since you posted that publicly I'm answering you publicly.

I was able to definitively confirm that you are not banned from the other site you refer to and NEVER have been banned from that site.

Carolyn

I don't want to argue about it online. I can say that I tried to access it from the site from different computers and also IP addresses. And got the same results every time. My nephew who is an IP tech didn't actually come and check it out but said from what it was telling me and doing that from all appearances my user ID and password wasn't able to access that site anymore. And I didn't try anymore. He said there were no issues with my internet provider here as that is where he works. I tried several times like I said from two different locations. And the other was at work and another IP provider. Over two days I believe. I will say I tried it just now and could access the site. I apologize for my statement. I hadn't tried since as I felt I had gave it enough time in case something was wrong. But again I will say my previous statement as it stands today is false. At the time I posted it I felt it was the truth. I know when I visit any site I'm a visitor and need to abide by the administrators rules. If I don't I can be banned or removed. And I respect their decisions. Just appreciate either a warning or an explanation. In this case evidently I wasn't banned. I could access the site everyone can but when I tried to log in to enter the member portion of the site is when it would redirect me and deny me access. Jay

Not sure which Y in the road led to Lithuanian Crested Pink but this left turn leads to the winner voted Best Tasting at the 2009 Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest:

{{gwi:1389985}}

Who grew it and what was the seed source?

The shoulders are beautifully raised and pleated. But I've never seen them quite like that before on Indian Stripe. Very nice.

Bill

Location #2, Jerry P.

Me. My original source I'd have to check but think it may have been Carolyn.

Only that one looks pleated, it was a weird shape. Otherwise they look like this:

{{gwi:1389986}}

Back on topic - Lithuanian Crested Pink (LCP)
My seed for this came from a trade with Steve "forgot his name but it's written on the packet" at least 7 years ago.
I've been saving the seed from the largest, meatiest tomatoes with the smallest and fewest seed locules.
Most of the time this is a wonderfully productive plant. Even cursed by the early blight this year, I had some productive, but not exemplary plants. ( I sprayed with copper sulphate at the first sign.)
LCP is mild, sweet, fruity and my family loves it so it goes in every year, make as good addition to canned tomatoes because it has so few seeds. Wonderful salad: LCP sliced lengthwise, dress with 1:1 mayo: sour cream, thin with lemon juice, dill snippets, thin sliced red onion.

My daughter and husband prefer Rose overall. I've mentioned this previously. Johnny's seeds of Maine advertised that Rose was better than Brandywine. I grew and ate both side by side - Rose won and goes in every year. It Also produced this year in spite of blight. The flavor is very fruity and you can tell when this is included in a sauce. I've saved seed for more than 10 years and have some fruits that have so few seed locules, they *almost* look seedless :-)

New love this year: Coustralee - a keeper, big, flavorful, only drawback is the large, plentiful locules. I squish the seeds out before canning.

Polish Pastel - like this one, productive, though it's a bit bland. Nice for canning since it is firm and keeps some shape.
I think this may be unstable though, as one year the seed I planted had little resemblence to the yellow bell with pink highlights. John from Australia has not answered my email lately :-( Bless him for sharing this one with me.

Tomatoes should not be political fodder - if you love one that does not mean the others are no good. It seems the different varieties are suited for different localities and weather conditions, different palates, personalities and uses.
Peace through tomatoes.

Back to lurk-land
Maryanne in WMass

I am loving seeing all the opinions on here... I am going to be pruning tomatoes again next year! I just want to try too many varieties to only pick a few! It looks like I'll be squishing in 8 varieties instead of 5 (plus 4 cherries and 4 pastes.)

If anyone is interested, =) I'm probably going to grow both Cherokee Purple AND Indian Stripe, and both Green Giant and Cherokee Green. Seeing I found out I love green-when-ripe tomatoes, and everyone recommends the other two so highly, I figure I will be happy with them all!

Try GMG too!