Alright now! You guys are confusin me! Ive checked my books and Ive googled a bunch of pictures onlineand I dont know what it was that was here. The pic of the bird I posted is a little misleading. The bird I saw was WAY browner than it looks in the pics. I know, I knowdont go by the color! And its sitting on the branch with its back toward me. I was amazed that I was able to get a pic when it turned its head in my direction briefly a couple times. Heres the third pic I got where you can (kinda) see that its facing away from mebut its the worst quality pic. I figured out why the pictures from upstairs are distorted! Theyre taken thru the screenand the birds on the feeders in the backyard look even worse because of the "down" angle of the camera thru the screen. The BIG bird isnt quite as bad since the neighbors yard is higher than mine, so it was taken on somewhat more of the same level with me. In the second pic above the bird had turned a little bit more sideways, but its still sitting on the branch facing away from me. With all the pictures Ive looked at, I really dont know, now, what it was. I first saw it on top of the lattice at my back fence, which is only about 25' away from the windowI have a very shallow backyardand I sure didnt notice any black eye stripe or black and white head striping. Actually, I didnt notice any black or gray at all. It sat on that branch and I watched it for close to 10 minutes. Tho the pic doesnt show it, it was brown and tan. I guess I havent found any immature pics, cause all the ones Ive found are very much gray to dark gray. I think the tail pointing down so much in the pic was as much a balancing act as anything. The branch it was on was very long and pretty small for such a large bird (at least 15-18"), and it was moving around a lot. So I dont think the position of the tail is telling in this case. And then theres still the problem of what the first bird I saw wasthe purpose of this post. It was really VERY different. When I saw the second one the next day I assumed it was a pair since males and females can be quite different in size and colorand since a lot of birds do travel around in pairs, but the closest picture Ive found yet of the original bird is the first pic I linked of the Gray Hawkwhich we all agree is wasnt! But it was exactly like that picture, but lighteralmost whitewith very obvious, wide, dark banding on the tailwhich was very widely fanned when it flew away. Maybe I just need to concede thatunless one or both come back and I get better picturesIm never going to know for sure what they were. Whatever they were, Im glad I got to see them! Skybird (who is easily identifiable by the arms and legsand the uniform!) P.S. Digit, my pair of robins (that are here all winter) nest in my backyard every year, but that obviously has nothing to do with the feeders. I do think it might have to do with the constant water sourceand the easy access to worms in the worked soil in the veggie garden. And there was a nest in one of the neighbors cottonwoods that overhangs my yard, but I dont know what was in it! I only know it was there because its been falling into my backyard all fall and winter! Other than that I havent seen any other nests, but then I dont actually have any deciduous trees, and Ive never seen any nests in the two upright junipersand I dont have any bird houses out since I dont have anywhere to hang them. Wait! I've had a house sparrow nest in the Euonymous that grows up the side of my house right by the steps down off of the deck every year! Do they count as birds? They've been building it on top of the bend in the downspout where they were completely hidden by the foliage. But they won't be back! I've pulled almost all of the Euonymous down! It was growing up under the siding and the shingles!

Feather, I'm also into photography. (Altho you can't tell it by the photos I am posting on this forum!! LOL) I just got a new zoom lens and I'm learning how to use it now. I hope to get lots of GOOD photos of birds, someday soon! I'm sorry you suffer from carpal tunnel. I have it too, but mildly enough that I can still draw. I'm planning on doing some bird drawings with graphite pencil, colored pencil, and water color. Those are my mediums of choice these days (I gave up oils and acrylics years ago). Did you do your artwork from photos or just from memory? I have to have a model or photo or I can't seem to get things right and I doubt that I can get a bird to sit still long enough to draw it! LOL Re: the hawks Thanks so much everyone for your input. I'm just not sure. I have seen photos of juvie red-tailed hawks that had lots of spots on their backs. To me the eyes don't look as hooded as the eyes of a red-shouldered hawk, but I would have to bow to your opinions because I've never seen one in person, just going by the photos I've seen! I'm on the lookout for more hawks...there's just something so cool about the raptors!!

It's sometimes a process, rehabber46, just learning (sometimes the hard way) what to do or not do. I see it all around me, the destruction of habitat as the city encroaches on the more 'wild' part of a county. People fleeing the 'city' move into portions of the county that were basically flattened and stripped of trees and shrubs, acres of it. Makes no sense to me, to be honest. Those bare and manicured yards are often kept that way with pesticides. Heck, we don't even spray for mosquitos. We just let the bats do the job for us. Right now, my yard is covered in tons of leaves. Many people don't know this, but some 300 species of insects (butterflies, moths, native bees, etc) overwinter in leaves, many of them attached to the very things most rake, mulch, mow, and clip away. Leaving leaves on the lawn, undisturbed, means far more beautiful and beneficial insects in the coming spring, and it also means more food for the birds as well. We've planted 2 plots of garden for hummingbirds and butterflies (and bees of course), and we've also planted native shrubs (additional ones to those already out there) for birds. American Beautyberry was our most recent. We have oaks that drop an abundance of acorns, several black cherry trees, maples, pine, and tons more. Even holly is beneficial to birds. As long as it's native, it's beneficial. As they say... fresh food, water sources, and shelter (for protection against predators and nesting), and you'll be helping nature thrive. Honestly, it's a lot less yard work when the shrubs are left 'scrubby' and the leaves are left until the temps are back into the 50's consistently, when raking is less harmful to what's overwintering in those leaves. I see more and more people going for the 'cottage garden' or 'wild garden' look for both just landscape.. and even vegetable gardens. I prefer the more messy and wild gardens than the sterile landscapes of most suburbs.

"always looking up. People must think I'm crazy while I stand out in my yard, eyes up and talking to whomever is up there!!!" I do the same thing all the time. I even drive that way sometimes..shh..don't tell my insurance agent!