Good luck Mike!!

That's excellent.

But before you lease please contact SPUR and find out any info they have on the land or the surrounding businesses, particularly which, if any, of the neighboring properties been cited for pollutants, and if so, what remediation has been documented.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cincinatti SPUR ~ Strategic Program For Urban Redevelopment

I'm nor sure, but looking at the map, the area I'm looking at falls within a SPUR area. If you don't mind, e-mail me with more info about what SPUR means.

My potential plat is surrounded by houses and an Interstate Highway. AFAIK, no concerns about contamination - it is not a Brownsfield. But i would love to learn more about this.

Thanks,

Mike

I hope everything works out Mike. I've been thinking about a nursery myself. I've got enough plants, seeds and knowhow to start one.

Sounds great! Do have the soil tested  it's inexpensive, and could tell you lots about any contaminants that might be there.

On ½ acre, I'd probably start with 1,000 plants and work your way up or down from there. That'll give you plants spaced at 3' in rows 6' apart, with a little space for storage and tools. For determinate tomatoes, you might even want 4' or 5' spacing within the rows.

taz,

Something I learned about 40 years ago - there's nothing to it but to do it. You will not fail - but you may have varying degrees of success!

nygardener,

Why would I want to space plants that far apart? My research shows commercial growers raise 8-10,000 plants per acre. In my backyard, I space them 2' apart in rows with 30" between rows and they do great. If (when!) I get a tractor to cultivate between rows, I'll go the 34" or so.

I plan, if this works out, to keep meticulous records and will post them.

Mike

I think you want to be cautious on the side of allowing enough air flow, sunlight, root room, and space for workers and harvest and irrigation equipment. It'll also help you get started on a manageable scale.

Here is a link that might be useful: ATTRA - Organic Tomato Production

Mike, it sounds like you're growing tomatoes to sell the fruits, not sell seedlings, so what are your thoughts on where and to whom you'd sell those fruits?

BTW, for many many years I grew my tomato plants in rows 250 ft long, 3-4 ft between plants in the row and 5 ft between rows, and about 12- 15 of those rows will fit nicely in about a 1/4 acre field, so doubling that to your possible 1/2 acre field you absolutely could grow 3000 or so plants based on what I grew in my 1/4 acre field.

Carolyn

Carolyn,

I have three businesses that have already said they will buy them and know another four that are within a mile. There are several carryouts and a large country produce store that are also very close but all these combined would account for maybe 1,000 pounds per week.

My best bet is to hook up with a major supermarket chain, one that use 2-3 tons per week.

We didn't grow acres as a child/teen but we did have probably close to 1/4 of an acre. Dad used a tobacco setter to transplant them: 32" between plants and 36" rows. We did that so we could cultivate them using a Farmall Cub (1948 model) tractor. They were large indeterminate and most of what I will grow will be determinate.

Mike

Not to beat this to death, but at 5 ft spacing, 1/4 acre will hold 8-9 250-foot rows, not 12-15, and with 80 plants per row, about 700 plants. That's with no borders, equipment, or outbuildings.

Determinate tomatoes tend to yield over a much shorter season than indeterminate and so might be better-suited for processing rather than market sales.

The reference I gave shows yields of 10-12,000 pounds for a half acre, spread over say a 12-week season (if you grow indeterminate tomatoes). That's half a ton per week.

I think it sounds like a great idea, and I'm envious! But I wouldn't plan, or make market commitments, based on numbers that may be a stretch. Better to start small, build up a loyal client base, and see how much you can actually produce. Just one tomatophile's opinion.

nygardener,

I value your opinion! The same of Carolyn's, Dave's and others. It helps me think about options and possibilities ad most importantly, traps. At the same time, I'm going to ride the horse that brought me here, so to speak, as well as the USDA's reports. I also trust studies that show the average plants per acre reported by commercial growers. And your reference syncs closely to what the USDA says (about 25,000 pounds per acre in the Midwest).

If there are any things I have learned in my life two of the most important concerning this adventure are: shoot for the stars but be happy to hit the top of tall trees; and plan for the worst but have plans for the best.

I've contacted experts about the best type of plants to grow (the only one I'm stuck on is Red Stuffer and I have experience growing it) and how to find co-ops regarding marketing expertise. Thought about how many stakes and feet (actually miles!) of string I will need to do a Florida Weave.

I haver no clue about this adventure will turn out but I will guarantee that there will not be an aspect I will not have studied!

Mike

Mike, if you're going to be growing lots and lots of different varieties you'll wish that you could use a plant setter. LOL

I never could b'c of trying to keep plants separated in the open box that sits in front of you on the setter, so I planted everything by hand. Sigh.

A 1948 Cub. Dad had one of those. Loved it.

NYGardener, you were close to my estimates. I was able to get 72 plants/row and I always had room left over when I planted 8-10 rows, the other space being used for my melons and cukes and broccoli and cabbage and all that stuff, so I just estimated how many more rows of tomatoes I could have fitted in there. And I'm not even sure it was a 1/4 acre field, I just remember the rows were 250 ft long.

yes, I was raised on what we call a truck farm here in the East. I was riding on the seat atop the water tank on the plant setter when I was a wee kid, graduated to picking Colorado Potato Beetles off the tomatoes and putting them in a can of kerosene and got a penny each for them. LOL

Rode the plant setter with Aunt Olive but she was not easy to work with b'c she was faster than I was and was always yelling at me to keep up.

And yes, we had acres and acres of tomatoes so I've been up close and personal with tomatoes and a lot more for maybe 60 years now, having just turned 71 in June.

The field I'm describing above was one I used after I moved back East to the old family farm in 1982 when it was leased to a young local farmer who would mark out my rows for me with his plant setter, have his men do the cultivating for me when and if they had time and it was usually his Uncle Roy who used a cub, newer model. In additio to that field I also had a side garden about 90 ft X 60 ft where I grew stuff like carrots and beets and spinach and peas and Chinese greens and radishes, and on and on, never less than 5-8 varietis of each. Also planted a small orchard as well as a huge herb garden and lots of strawberries and many perennial gardens as well.

After I moved back East I had summers off from teaching and spent all of them at the old family farm.

I was NOT good at driving the various tractors when I was a kid. At least I didn't have to deal with the first one I remember my father having which was a crank up dealie with iron lugs that eventually ended up at my father's Rod and Gun Club when they were doing some building.

Thanks for the memories.

Growing up on a farm was a wonderful experience and hard work as well but a good lesson in developing a work ethic that has lasted me the rest of my life. As well as being obsessed about weather, which I would expect any farmer's daughter to do so. ( smile)

Carolyn

Been using Google more and more and ran across some interesting papers from the Universities of Tennessee and Georgia. Both of them recommend 4-6' between rows but between plants anywhere from 18" to 34," depending on whether growing in bare ground or plastic mulch. I'm not sure why the wide row spacing, unless it is to allow carts between the rows for harvesting purposes. If I go 34"x48" I should get about 1940 plants in a half-acre. That would be enough for me to see how things go for the first year.

Carolyn, we used a tobacco setter not only for tobacco and tomatoes but dad adapted it for potatoes also. Did that ever save a bunch of back-breaking work. He removed the finger and adjusted the notches so we knew how often to drop a potato in the tube. Of course, I used Cubby to cultivate all three crops, as well as Green Beans, corn and cucumbers, though the cukes got plowed only once. I also side-dressed with it.

I learned real fast how to hold the crank to start it - never wrap a thumb around the handle! If I had a dollar for each hour I sat on that thing during those years, I would have been a wealthy person. During the peak cultivating season, I would plow from 8 am to 11 pm or later.

We also did the beetle thing, only for the potatoes. Each day or every other day, we would take our buckets out, walk along each plant and knock all the bugs into the bucket which we then filled with water. In later years, when we started growing huge amounts of them, I sprayed the plants with DDT - it was legal back then. However, we always saved one row, the one we started digging once the plants were large enough to produce decent size spuds. The rest did not get harvested until early October, after the tobacco crop was in.

Would you believe that I was 30 years old before I found out Labor Day was a day for Grill-Outs and parties? Back in Brown County, it was LABOR day, actually weekend. More tobacco was harvested from that Friday-Monday than any other two weekends combined. Friday evening, after the sun sat, we would load up 250-500 sticks of tobacco (had to wait until it cooled a bit as it would tend to rotten overnight otherwise) and then be back at 7:30 to unload it.

That stuff was work - dirty, sweaty, smelly work - but was it fun!

Mike

Been using Google more and more and ran across some interesting papers from the Universities of Tennessee and Georgia. Both of them recommend 4-6' between rows but between plants anywhere from 18" to 34," depending on whether growing in bare ground or plastic mulch. I'm not sure why the wide row spacing, unless it is to allow carts between the rows for harvesting purposes. If I go 34"x48" I should get about 1940 plants in a half-acre. That would be enough for me to see how things go for the first year.

*****

I said I left 5 ft between rows and that was so the cub could cultivate between those rows until the plants were so big the cub couldn't get thru there. Sometimes I had to use my Mantis tiller as a mechanical how when Charlie or his men could cultivate for me. I forgot to mention that all my plants were grown by sprawling which is what all the farmers did in my area and still do. Yes, I have made my own cages out of CRWire and used them, it all depended where I was growing at the time.

I guess you could say I was pretty commercial at the time when I was growing so many tomatoes and there were no carts that went between the rows b'c there was no room. Tomatoes were handpicked by me in half bushels baskets, loaded onto my granfathers old wheelbarrow with the iron wheel and wheeled out by hand.

I don't get it with the 18-34 " spacing between plants in a row. If I were planting all determinates or compact indeterminates I'd never go less than two feet and if indeterminates 3-4 ft was fine.

But then I don't know what kinds of varieties you plan to grow and HOW you plan to grow them, viz sprawling, staking, trellising with hog wire, or what.

Carolyn

What kind of fencing do you plan? In the middle of a city, I would worry about crop-rustlers or even vandals.

I used to grow tomatoes in my front yard [on a busy street with foot traffic from 3 schools] but gave up in dispair. Ditto for my tall attractive flowers. Are CA teens more prone to theft/vandalism than OH teens?

Sorry for the negative post. I assume with all of your pre-planning/trouble-shooting, that security is already on your list.

Carolyn,

I'm not sure exactly which varieties I'll actually end up with, but I'm settled on at least two: Red Stuffer and Celebrity. The Stuffer is supposed to be an Indy but the ones in the back yard are only about 3.5' tall. The Celebrity is a Determinate. If I go with another Deter it will probably be either Mt. Delight or BHN 589.

I will not let them sprawl - too much wastage from what I read; I know we lost a bunch when dad did that. I'm planning on using the Florida Weave.

The site said 18-34" between plants for determs, I find 18" is far too close. I'm at 2' in my garden and it's okay for the smaller plants, a bit close for the large Indys. Dad started at 36" (two tobacco setter fingers) and later switch to 40" when he spread the tobacco out to 20" between plants.

I'm having confusion trying to figure out why one needs 5' of room between rows. A Cub is only ~4' wide and while the cultivators could cover probably 3' per side, it only needed about 2.5' of space.

Unless I start growing acres, I'll be forced to use a rotary tiller for cultivation, though I will hire someone to plow and disk the ground. The tines cover 30" so if I use 3' rows, I'll only need to make one pass per row.

OSU has an extension agent that is well respected in growing tomatoes, I hope to pick his brain.

Mike

Mike, who are you going to sell to? I sold to chefs and at a large Farm Market business for many years.

Please oh please grow varieties other than Red Stuffer, which chefs don't really like b'c it's so darn fibrous, which is true for all the hollow ones out there. Better to scoop out the insides from a good tasting tomato and stuff it.

Are you plannint to meet with those to whom you might be selling? That really helps so you can discuss with her or him what the possible varieties might be. And for those starting out like you are I have always suggested doing a trial run season so you can see how they do before committing to X pounds of this or that variety, or even mixed variety deliveries.

Well I remember the one chef who said he wanted only German Red Strawberry ones, I only had three plants and couldn't short others to please him. He was difficult, so I dropped him b'c with restaurants I wasn't selling for money, I was selling in exchange for wine and food. LOL

Celebrity I won't even comment about, and yes, I've grown it. LOL

I think these days you'll find that your chefs and others aren't all that interestred in round red hard fruited varieties and there's about 5 K varieties now aailable commercially, of OP's, not hybrids of which there's only a couple of hundred, so lots of choices, even with the F1's b'c there are some good F1's as well.

Carolyn

Carolyn,

Whether you meant to or not, you boosted my ego a bit! Yes, I have been contacting some businesses and once the zoning change is done and the lease signed, I will contact other sources. A guy who likes me (we did an article about his store and I leave a paper each week) has two large produce stores. I don't have the right contact at Kroger's a huge supermarket chain HQ'ed in Cincy, but I do have other contacts in high places. Plus I know some purveyors who distribute in a 100-mile radius.

I am/will growing/grow every variety I plan to sell and take samples to the ultimate buyers.

Taste: It's so subjective. IME, the very best tasting supermarket tomato is not close to the worst tasting vine-ripened one! So I'm looking at productivity, disease tolerance, Days to maturity. Plus, from October-July, no one around here will be offering vine-ripened tomatoes. My ultimate goal is a 365-day operation. If I can get to the point I can do Farmers Markets in late April/early May, I can sell the tomatoes at $2/lb. and in quite the amount. A mid-size market just up the street attracts 300-400 shoppers per week. They also offer winter availability of some commodities - one vendor is getting $17 for a dozen eggs (free range, organically fed chickens - go figure!)

There's a commercial - I cannot remember what they are selling - but it is centered around "what I want to do when I grow up." I want to be a tomato farmer!

Keep looking for any flaws in my business plan or things I may need to consider. It's not so much what I don't know that will hurt me - I can look it up and learn it. It's what I don't even think about that can bit me in the behind.

Mike

I finally made it over to roughly measure the area - about 270' x 60'. If I plant the toms 2' apart in rows and the rows 3' apart, I will have room for about 2,700 plants.

Now I have to find the very best varieties to grow.

Mike