Hi Bet,i don't think this is too useful to you but I had a nesting of five babies and I didn't even realize the mother was dead until after they fledged, which is when i found her body in the nest. I don't know how long she was dead in there but I watched five babies fledge and then found the dead mother. never found out why she died but apparently the father took care of them until they fledged.

Oh that's sad. I wonder how old the babies were when she died.... Glad the father was able to carry the load. Were you offering mealworms?

I don't believe that I was offering mealworms at that time. I rarely do since I think the birds are better off with their natural diet. And of course, I didn't realize that the father was on his own with five babies or I might have done it that year. The body of the mother bird wasn't too deteriorated so maybe it wasn't too long that she was dead. At the time someone suggested that she might have just died of old age. She didn't look harmed in any way though I must say I was pretty upset and didn't examine the body thoroughly.

Anita

thanks Anita. I seriously doubt a bird old enough to die of old age would be nesting, but who knows.

Hi Bet! Happy nesting season to you. As Anita said, not sure how much this will help you but here goes--

Father disappeared (killed in severe thunderstorm) 1 1/2 weeks after four nestlings fledged. We were already offering mealworms at the time but increased the # of worms to help widowed female out. Two days later, a new male arrived and began wing-waving to the female. She immediately began carrying in nesting material to the box she and her first mate previously used. This male was definitely new - his behavior was all different. (Ex., he had no clue about the mealworm feeder.) He was VERY aggressive toward the fledglings. He would literally get between the mother and the young and spread his wings like a shield to "block" her from feeding them. If that didn't work, he would swoop at them and knock them from their perch and chase them away. Very hard to watch. Also, unlike the first male, this male was NEVER observed defending the box from house wrens, HOSP, or squirrels. He actually "learned" how to from the female.

About two weeks after her new suitor arrived, the female quickly had an active nest with four eggs underway. By this time, the fledglings from brood #1 were completely ignored by the mother and left to fend for themselves. Then, less than a week after the eggs from the second brood hatched, the new male was found dead in our yard, about ten feet from the box. We really have no idea what killed him but we suspect a hawk. The neck was broken, there was NO blood or matted feathers. There was however, a pile of his feathers scattered nearby. With the female being widowed once again, we upped the anty of mealworms. In addition, we bought some calcium powder at the pet store and also crickets. I also scooped up any bugs I found in the house or garden and threw them into the feeder. In the end, this incredible female successfully raised another brood of four to fledging. God bless her! :)

Hope that helps!

bonkers, sounds like a cat, not a hawk. A hawk would more likely eat the bird, and if interrupted, will carry it away. Cat will play with it until it moves no more, and no more fun. What might look like a broken neck is not always, as their head goes limp. Could also have been a window strike. Poor birds' lives are fraught with dangers.

Hey Bet, you just made me think of something - do birds actually stop reproducing when they reach a certain age? And if they do stop, what would they do then? Never thought about it but there are no nursing homes for birds are there? I guess most birds probably perish long before they reach old age, but it's something to consider. Do you know?

Thanks for the insight, BlueBars. Put in that perspective it does sound more like a cat. Guess I was thinking (maybe hoping, if that's possible) that it was a hawk because of the way the bird looked. Also, we do have a lot of crows and jays in our area and I've seen them mob a hawk so intensely after making a kill that the hawk did leave its prey behind.

Thanks Bonk! I added a bullet at the bottom of the page on what you can do... one thing is to TRY to figure out what happened to the adult (which is NOT always possible) to prevent recurrence. I also added description of aggression. It's also useful to know that she was able to go it alone with babies that were about a week old.

Here is a picture of a hawk feeding on a starling. Notice it has the bird upside down. I watched it rip out the breast feathers (a lot left behind). I think it was going for organs as most nutritious, esp. in winter. This is, I think, a Sharp-Shinned, which are in trouble in CT, and first year birds have a tough time in the winter. I scared it off accidentally while photographing and it did leave the bird behind.

If you've ever seen a cat bat around a bird or mouse, you can see how easily it's neck could break.

Bet, I lost my first female when she had two 10 day old babies in the nest box. They were old enough to be cared for by the male so at least that was a good thing. I know she died because I found her body..... in the floor board of my husbands car! On the day she died her behavior was totally off the wall to the point that I mentioned to my husband it was as if she had a death wish. She spent hours at my triangle window (20 feet high) banging away. I went out several times and spoke to her and tried to figure out what was going on. My hubby had pulled his car out of the garage, into the driveway, and because there was a slight chance of rain the window were almost closed, cracked about an inch. How she got in and WHY she wanted in I'll never know. Our driveway is on the side of the house and at least 100 feet from the back yard nest box. Not a mark on her and no "poop" left behind, just her sweet little body. I talked (and cried) to Malinda and we kind of do think she was old. It was her third year in my yard and the only time she produced a clutch that contained only two fertile eggs (four were originally laid in that clutch) and most of her clutches produced five or at least four fertile eggs. In three years and 8 clutches she only laid a total of 3 infertile eggs. One really odd thing about HIS behavior that day: I didn't realize she was missing late that afternoon but while I was out in the yard watering some plants HE came to me, as close as five feet from the plants I was watering and that was most unusual. I think he knew she was in that car and was trying to communicate that to me. (Yep, I have gone over the edge!) Anyway, he went on to find a new female in about two days and that new female did go inside the nest box SEVERAL times before Ma's last two fledged. Worried me sick but she never hurt them. They fledged on the 18th day and I cleaned out the box immediately and the new female was building that NIGHT at 8:30. Those last two fledglings of Ma's made it for at least a month because I got to see both of them, both females, several times in my yard. Apparently Pa took good care of them even with a new clutch in the works.

The next April I lost Pa. He had five 1 day old babies in the box when he went AWOL. I never found a body, believe me I searched, but when he didn't come after me (dive bombing when I monitored) for a full hour, I knew he was gone for good. I contacted Casey (rehabber) and she was great. Brought me her cricket tub and a calcium powder that I could use to roll the mealworms in. I ordered crickets and wax worms (and meal worms) from Reptilefoods and kept her bowl full in the meal worm feeder. She did leave the box to hunt outside of my yard but spent most of her time with them and especially in the first 6 days. A new male showed up 3 days after Pa went missing and while he never hurt them I never once saw him help her. He did sit on the box occasionally but I never saw him enter. I have no idea if he helped her once the five fledged but I did get a full count at the meal worm feeder about 2 weeks later so I know that made it that far. That new male is only my 2nd male in 7 years of hosting. The female that replaced Ma disappeared the next year, second nesting, leaving 5 eggs in the box but those eggs were promptly removed (by the bluebirds, I'm almost certain) and new pine straw and 5 more eggs were added by this 3rd female.

I think the 2nd male and 3rd female are still the current adults in my yard. I believe this because of their ease with using the meal worm feeder. IMHO, one of the easiest ways to know you've got a "new" bird is when they can't figure out how to get into the meal worm feeder!

Bet Last year I lost the male blue just one week into got incubation on my first nest!!! I got all my info from Janie on what to do and she sent me the calcium powder for the mealworms. Two days later she found a new male and man he was he a crazy one. She continued to incubate those eggs with him on her tail warbling away constantly. It took him a couple days to figure out the wren guard and the feeder. He did go in the box a few times and at first bothered nothing BUT I was very worried because he seemed so impatient. He got into some really nasty fights with my male Tres and still continued to enter the box after hatching on occasion with me watching. I could see the frustration building in him and finally it happened while I was on the computer. I SAW him fly out of the box over my house with something in his mouth and I didn't want to believe it but it was one of the babies!!! Long story short I ran out the front door after him and it took me about 20 or 30 minutes to find it in the back yard. I put in back in and even though it was pretty cold that morning it survived and fledged. He and I had some pretty harsh words and me chasing him waving my arms a few times after that but we did come to an agreement and he did leave them alone after that but I'm sure he would have emptied the entire box. She spent a FULL 2 weeks after fledging training those first babies before she even started a second nest. I never saw any of them again and I know he finally ran them off. He did father the next brood. He was a very good Papa and everything went as usual with them.
Hope this helps
Cathy

Wow ladies, those are some stories! YIKES!

Cathy, how old was the nestling that the new male took it out of the box?

usually the parents feed the juveniles for a month after fledging.

You know Bet I really can't remember exactly. It wasn't "clothed" except a few fuzzies on the head and down the back and it's eyes were not open yet either. Maybe I should go to that really cool sialis website and look at pics of the babies and determine the age. LOL It was early in the spring too because one of them was born on your birthday.
Cathy

Hey Bet, I was just looking at this page yesterday as I seem to have lost my male BB. No clue what happened Momma laid her fourth egg on Tuesday and that was the last I saw of him. She is incubating but also seems to be acting funny. I hadn't trained them to mealworms yet but I have been putting a dish down below where I always see her perch. She sits there but never goes down to the bowl, not sure if they aren't moving enough or what. She is in and out of the box alot but does seem to be sitting on the eggs yet as of yesterday. I will be watching today to see what happens. I am just hoping she stays but only 2 days into incubation, I fear she may abandon the nest.

Donna

Cathy, you really should visit that website. You could learn so much. ROFLMAO

Bet, first nesting this season I lost my male two days after hatching. He had been going in to feed the three hatchlings as often as the female did. Suddenly he was AWOL and I never did find his body. A day later a new male showed up. I know he was new because he never did figure out the wren guard and I never did see him go in the box even after I removed the guard on day 12 after hatching. Most days he was absent for long periods, only returning at dusk. When he did return, he would go in the feeder (after he saw her do it), fill his belly and leave. I used to stand out there watching and saying he must have been out at the golf course. Meanwhile, the female did exactly what she needed to do for her chicks with no help from him. I did offer calcium dusted meal worms to at least give her a little help. The afternoon of the morning they fledged, he kept her busy here in the yard all afternoon. They played CONSTANTLY on the box and then flew from tree to box, tree to box. This went on for hours with nobody feeding fledglings. The morning of the next day I took good advice and plugged the hole of the box for a couple of days. This maybe jarred her back to reality because, finally, I saw her shuttle worms a couple of times. That gave me hope that at least one of the fledglings had managed to survive and had not starved that first day. Sure enough, there is now one (a male) following her more than 2 weeks later. Apparently she woke up to her responsibility and resumed feeding him in time. I have no idea if the new male fed the survivor at all but I don't see any reason why he would have since he didn't tend anybody while they were still in the box. When I see all of them in the feeder now, he only feeds himself.

The female didn't start a new nest until 2 weeks after the first ones fledged. She is in the middle of egg laying and still seems to be feeding this fledgling all by herself as he learns to do his own hunting.

Ok, so any advice from anyone on how to keep Momma ok on her eggs with no Dad. Today would be day three of incubation. She is still here but no male. Will she stay? I know a male will sing for a new mate but what does a female do? Also being this is late into the nesting season if a new mate did show up, he wouldn't have a chance for mating if she did try to raise these eggs on her own as there wouldn't be enough time here in WI for another nesting if this one went to fledging. I am going to go get some crickets this morning as soon as the pet shop opens disable them and put them in with the mealworms in the dish I have under her perch, hoping that with a little more movement in there she will find the worms. I may also get a few waxworms. If I can get her to the mealworm dish then I will get more mealworms/waxworms to keep her belly full so she can just incubate those eggs as much as she needs to. Oh, I am so upset over this, my stomach is just in knots. I was so excited to get these Blues and now this happens. Last year I had a baby with a deformed leg (died), blowflies killed two more babies and I had the one sole survivor and now this.

Donna

Donna, Does she ever land ON the box? One time I had to put a dish on the box roof for them to be found. It only had to stay there about 30 minutes. They couldn't find ANY bowl on the ground. That time I had put THREE bowls on the ground at the same time, hoping they would find at least ONE.

This female might or might not incubate these eggs, no matter what you or I would try to do. I know you would hate to lose them (I would too), but keep in mind that if she does abandon and lays more that is still more bluebirds in the world.

Tought I'd add my 2 cents worth to the amazing bluebird stories. Bet, I loved your web site. We've had bluebirds in our yard for many years. Our nest boxes (3 of them) stay occupied most of the Spring so we don't bother them. A couple years ago I noticed a large blue tail and two legs sticking out of the entrance of one of them.

A jay had tried to get in and got stuck in the hole and died. I wasn't sure how long he had been there because I still work full time and often don't get home till after dark, but it must have been a day or two. I took the box down and pulled out the dead body. Inside I could hear faint chirping.

The five chicks were partially fledged and as soon as they saw daylight they all started begging for food. It was a Saturday and I had the time to observe for about an hour before I offered them anything. The parents didn't visit the nest for an hour so I started catching grasshoppers, crickets and earthworms.

I only fed the bugs soft parts and I cut the earthworms into smallish pieces but those babies were hungry. I used tweezers to feed and only had to lightly brush the side of the nest with my finger to get them to 'open wide.' I had to take the nest out of the nest box so I could reach the babies and I placed it in a shoe box and held it on my lap to provide warmth and wind protection. Their constant chirping apparently alerted the parents because after about three hours they both showed up.

As soon as I replaced the nest in the box both parents went in and mom comforted the kids while dad started gathering food. It was a gratifying experience with a very happy ending.

Cheryl

Cheryl, my jaw dropped when I read that! A BLUE JAY got stuck and died in the entrance hole, OMG! That has got to be a first for Bet (and maybe all of us!).

That is an amazing story Cheryl.

Bet, last year my baby blues fledged on a Sat. That same evening a hawk killed that daddy blue. The hawk was sitting on my fence post, and had gouged the male but dropped him. Sunday morning I was shocked to see my female with a new male already. They started nest building immediately. She fed her fledgling for a couple of days but then I never saw them again and she was at the nestbox building all day long. I never saw her take them mealworms and there was absolutely no indication that she was taking care of them. She spent most of the day building her new nest. I believe that she lost interest in them. By Wed., only 4 days after her previous mate died she had laid her first new egg in that nestbox. She nested 4 times that year. Her first nest was an early than usual nesting and since she didn't spend anytime feeding her first clutch of fledglings, I guess she had time for a 4th nest. (btw, she lays white eggs)
Tammy

Oh my Cheryl - where are you from? That's incredible...wish you had a photo. Bluejays will eat eggs and young nestlings... guess that guy got a bit too greedy. I will have to do a webpage on blue jays now!

Donna, I added the advice about plugging up the hole if the widow only seems interested in starting another brood. Great idea. Juveniles depend on their parents for food for 30 days after fledging - they don't know how to feed themselves (I've seen them sitting on top of a pile of mealworms begging even after a couple of weeks and seeing their parents feeding at the feeder.)

Cheryl, for future reference, do NOT feed earthworms - The baby birds' undeveloped stomachs apparently can't handle earthworms because of the dirt castings in the worms' gut. Eating earthworms (sometimes used as a source of food by bluebird parents during bad weather, when nothing else is available) can cause severe diarrhea, which can result in dehydration and starvation.

A few bluebirds never do figure out the mealworm thing. Be VERY careful about putting food on or right near a nestbox - it can attract predators. If you put a few mealworms and they are eaten right away before anyone else notices it might be okay. I usually put feeders at LEAST 100 feet away from a box.

Donna keep us posted... you are doing all you can.... but we just can't fix everthing.

Thank you ALL so MUCH for sharing your experiences and information and ideas.... probably 90% of the stuff on my website is from people like you!

XO

Bet

Here is a link that might be useful: widows, widowers and orphans