I'd go with a baffle!

I'm certainly not an electrician, so I cannot respond to whether or not it's a good idea. Electricity and birds.....I would grease the pole. Here is a link to Texas Bluebird Society's newsletter addressing the greased pole solution. Scroll down until you get to the article by Dan Hanan.

http://texasbluebirdsociety.org/newsletter

Linda C

No ,the electricity will not harm the birds - Plastic and wood are not good conductors so the birds will never even know it is there. Even if it were possible (which it is not :)), the birds are not grounded so they would not get shocked. With a fence charger this is how it works - the wire is charged but is not grounded, if an animal completes the circuit by touching the wire and ground at the same time it will feel the sting of the current passing through its body and get away from the wire. The wire is only charged for .2 sec, this leaves the other .8 for escaping before getting the pulse again. I think if a snake would start climbing the pole it would touch the wire, and since itÂs body is on the ground, it would feel the pulse and go away. I hope.
Greasing sounds good, but with a small baby and 14 houses to monitor, my time is really limited. Also, the wiring would take no time but building 5 more baffles for the remaining unprotected houses would take all day.
Anybody ever tried it?
I probably should catch a live snake and try it myself :)

Aleks, why don't you just baffle it? Isn't it less complicated?

Actually, a baffle is a lot more complicated than the fence. I already got an electric fence near birdhouses. I just need wind some wire around the pole and connect it to the fence - just a few minutes of work.

Seems like you've answered your own question!! :)

I'm just not sure about its effectivness on snakes. I never tried it on reptiles before.

If a baffle will work, there is the answer, I guess.

Since the snake would have to be grounded before it will get shocked, how is it going to feel the shock? It seems you would have to run two sets of wires...the "electric" one and then another wire which is grounded. The snake would have to touch both wires simultaneously to get shocked (unless the pole is metal and grounded!!).

Harold

If a snake tries to climb this pole, the upper part of his body will touch the wire while the rest of his body is on the ground.

{{gwi:39510}}

Wired plastic part is 2.5' long. Fence not connected yet.

Just my nickles worth but this requires a power source, right? So whenever you lose power the BBs are unprotected. If a wire comes loose, connection breaks, a short in the system/line, or any of several reasons why you could lose power, the birds are not protected. With you being the kind of person that goes to all this trouble to help BBs, I'm not sure you would want to take the chance. Baffles appear to be the best all around protection to me.
Dean

If I rememeber right, you are in the south, where the snakes can grow quite large and make their living finding food like eggs, birds and nestlings. The protection of your electric wire, even if it was working, only goes up2 1/2 feet. Snakes can go vertical 3/4 their body length before touching a pole or surface. In other words, a six foot snake can go over 4 feet before he needs to touch something to climb it. Documentation of this fact is stated below, from the Sialis website, and written by Keith Kridler, co-author of the Bluebird Monitor's Guide.

"Snakes are common of predators on nestboxes. Because some snakes can rise up 3/4 of their own length, they often easily by-pass raccoon baffles. Some snakes are able to slither straight up vertical surfaces without difficulty. Keith Kridler says a rat snake or coachwhip snake can stand up two thirds of their body length and reach into a nestbox without touching the pole or guard. Each of these species commonly reach seven feet in length and can reach lengths over 9 feet."

To find the proper protection for snakes, go to the link below and in the search area, type in "snakes". You will get much needed information. We owe the bluebirds more than doing the easy or least time consuming thing if we put out nestboxes for them to use on our property.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sialis website

If the fence loses power, my first concern will be the cows getting on the road :) You know, we can't let that happen. Also, we have an alarm on the fence, so whenever it fails, we know and fixing it ASAP. It is almost inpossible for a snake to get there in that very short period of time. Also, the bluebirds just fledgled from this house in the picture two days ago. They grew up without any protection. I wrote about them in here (post "Spooker").

To Malinda - yes, they can get big here, but a snake of this size could also bypass a baffle, also snakes are not that smart. They don't know the wire is only 2.5' high.
I'm sure a snake that larg would go for the chicken eggs in chicken house just few feet away. There is no reason for a snake to waist that much energy to get to those little bluebird eggs when he has large tasty eggs lying right in front of him :)

Do you think this is a good idea?

To answer your question, the general consensus was No.

But you have already made up your mind, and you explain to everyone why you won't use a baffle. So why do you ask? You can shortcut to what you want to do without asking advice from the people here that are so experienced and generous with their help.

I just don't understand why you bother asking if you're just going to do what you planned anyway.

I asked because I thought that somebody had experience with it. Also, I WILL believe that a baffle is a better idea if somebody who KNOWS about electric fencing and has been using one, also understands about how electricity work will tell me that this is a bad idea.

To build baffles for 5 houses I have to buy all those pipes and caps, that will cost me about $60, and then spend a day or two making and installing 5 baffles, and all this I should do with 8 m.o. baby. Or I can spend 20 minutes puting wire on poles.

Aleksandra -- here is what you said, and I quote:

"Greasing sounds good, but with a small baby and 14 houses to monitor, my time is really limited. Also, the wiring would take no time but building 5 more baffles for the remaining unprotected houses would take all day.
Anybody ever tried it?"

My answer to that is, maybe 14 nestboxes are just too much for you to monitor right now. Couldn't you just take down the boxes that you say don't have baffles? While you are right, making 5 more baffles would "take all day", the birds who nest in your boxes spend a lot of time and effort building the nests, incubating the eggs for weeks, then hunting all day long to feed them for several more weeks. In relation to the effort they put out, and the possibility of losing their very LIVES because YOU are too busy, doesn't that sound a little irresponsible, selfish and foolish? Wouldn't the protected nestboxes that are already up be enough for you if you don't have time to baffle the others? You must know that you have snakes on your property or you would not have taken the time to ask this question, so now that you obviously KNOW, the question is, what are you going to DO about the unprotected boxes? Even*IF* the electric wire worked, if there is no baffle, all your wire is doing is making nice sturdy STEPS for the raccoons (or any other animal) to use to get to the box. You also stated that snakes "aren't very smart" - I would like to differ with you on that. Snakes have been around forever and they are very skilled at finding what they need to survive - be it your chicken eggs or your Bluebird eggs, or anything else on your property that you are responsible for protecting the best that you can.

It sounds like you have already made up your mind, so I am extremely frustrated trying to figure out why you asked this question. I don't mean to be harsh -- we have attempted to earnestly help you in years past. I know you know you need baffles on the poles - with or without the electric wiring - they still need baffles. If you have cows, you are in an area that has other wildlife which live off birds and eggs at this time of the year. You have a responsibility. I would remove the boxes that are unbaffled and empty. If you have nests in some that are unbaffled already, then remove a baffle from one of your nestboxes that is currently baffled and unoccupied until you can get a baffle for EVERY box.
Again, I don't mean to be harsh - I have the well being of your native cavity nesters in mind. You know you need baffles or you would not already have them on some of your boxes.
Malinda

Lost a whole nest of baby chickadees one night using a nestbox with no baffle on the pole. Learned my lesson. Bought my first baffle for $24.95. Made the rest for $7.00 each. They are 24" tall, 6" diameter, 15 minutes to make.

Harold

"Even*IF* the electric wire worked, if there is no baffle, all your wire is doing is making nice sturdy STEPS for the raccoons (or any other animal) to use to get to the box."

I did not mean to be harsh either. :) but because you saying this, I can tell that you never had any experience with electric fences. No animal can make "sturdy STEPS", or even ONE step on a hot electric wire. Otherwise, my dogs will be running all over the neighborhood right now. By the way, no raccoons, opossums, squirrels, etc. are here - my dogs keep them out.
I don't have snakes all the time, but occasionally they can wander in here. Also, I kept a snake (rat snake) in my house one time so I know what I'm talking about when I say that they are not so smart.

If I take the houses down, they will go nest in my neighbors' birdhouses. I'm not sure if this is better for them.
Here are some

{{!gwi}}

Before I take houses down I would like to hear REAL reasons from people who know at least a little about electric fences. My husband, who is a technician, mechanic and electrician, is saying that it WILL stop a snake.

Obviously all you need is to ask your husband then, and not the experienced bluebirders on this forum. Maybe there is an Electrician's Forum?

But you asked bluebirders if "it is a good idea," and they said no.

If it works, then that is great. I have had experience with electric fences for dogs and for cows. Never thought about it for my nestbox poles. If you have a lot of nestboxes, it seems the electric wire would be impossible to put on every one (if they are properly spread out). I have four nestboxes up. Two of them are not on my property and no where near any type of electrical hook-up. Therefore, a baffle is the ideal solution for me. I have now gone 6 years with NO predators...at all...getting to my nestboxes with baffles on the poles.

By the way, your first nestbox picture looks to have a perch mounted under the hole. No good bluebird box has a perch...it can make the box more attractive to house sparrows (and house sparrows will bypass any type of guard on a pole).

Harold

The fence is around my yard to keep the dogs in. All of the birdhouses are just few feet from the fence and at least 50 feet apart.

I dont understand about the perch. If you are talking about the three pictures in my previous post - they are not mine, they are my neighbors and they are definately not going to do anything to protect it.
This is the one I have

Well, here is the answer on Elly's post. I Asked this question on two different farm forums - one here and one on another site. Everybody agreed that it would work.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/farmlife/msg0507175615149.html

http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=47702&start=0amp;st=0amp;sk=t&sd=a

Thanks for the links. You got some great advice there from real nature lovers.

Thanks for coming back to repost and let us know. It doesn't kill the snake, right? Some solutions would kill the snake, and that's not the goal.
P.S. Be careful monitoring this nestbox! You don't want to get zapped.
BlueBars

The people who wrote about the dead snakes were talking about regular AC current. Electric fences have a lot of power, but because it also has very short cycles it don't kill. I have been zapped many times myself - it is not that bad :)
I like snakes, so I wouldn't harm them. Unless you call leaving them without those tasty bluebird babies harm :)

Today I found a 4 ft rat snake in the barn near my birdhouses! She is a very sweet baby, and the eggs in these birdhouses were left intact. So it sounds promising!

{{!gwi}}

Today I found another one - 5'3" long. I wonder how many are actually here :) Maybe I will add another small baffle to this one birdhouse for double protection. I also would like to ask another question. I relocated this snake about two miles from here. But I don't know if this was a good idea. He will be eating birds there. Maybe I should have left them in the barn and they could have lived on chicken eggs? But it would have been a very high risk for the birds in my birdhouses. What do you think?

This one is the 5 ft snake.

I think that it is against the law to relocate wildlife unless you have a permit to do so. I myself would have thought about taking it to a cornfield or something like that nearby.

Snakes have a home range in which they live and nest. So no, it is not a good idea to relocate them or any wildlife.

Well, I understand all this, but in real life, nobody would let a snake stay near their house. Most people around here would not bother them selves with catching the snake and relocating it, they would just shoot it. But my question was like this "Is it a good idea to let them stay here in such large numbers? The snakes are attracted to the chickens and I am finding them in the chicken house. It is not a natural habbitat for snakes in the first place. Will it put the bluebirds in extra danger?
Myself, I would like to have them around, but not in the nesting season. I'm using mouse poison in the barn next to the chicken house and I don't know if this is safe for the snakes. These two look pretty healthy, even though I have seen an almost dead poisoned mouse staggering around just a few days ago. Maybe the snakes not sensitive to it?

You wrote I relocated this snake about two miles from here. But I don't know if this was a good idea.

I said it was not a good idea. Silly me. I thought you were soliciting opinions again. I did not realize you were just talking to yourself.

I would thing if the nestboxes were properly cared for (with baffles) this would not be a problem.

Regarding mouse poison: I know you didn't ask and will have many reasons to poison all the little creatures that are unfortunate to share your world, but for anyone else who actually wants to learn about the effects rat poison has on their environment, read this below.

Like the other wiser people on this forum, I think I'm going to to bow out of this conversation.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rodenticide kills nest of hawks in NYC

I just had an interesting conversation with a guy who owns a Pest Control company. When snakes enter a home, he traps them and relocates them at least 2 miles away, in appropriate habitat. Closer than that, he said, and they are more likely to return to that home.
I'm not saying that all snakes should be relocated! But, when necessary, relocation sure is better than poisoning.
Just offering a bit of information about snakes that I learned today.
BlueBars

It is not better. They die when relocated. Wildlife dies when it is relocated. It makes homeowners feel good, but it is not good for wildlife.

Oh my, elly, is that so? Is that documented anywhere, because I would like to provide that information to the guy I spoke with.
Thanks for the info.
BlueBars

I don't think it is in a Pest Control Service's interest to actually know the details of what they do. They use poison that has terrible consequences on non-targeted species and will tell you it's safe, and they relocate wildlife often illegally and tell you it's OK. They are not wildlife biologists.

Nor am I! But here are two articles relating to snakes specifically. The HSUS link has many articles about living with wildlife, and emphasizes that relocating wildlife basically is a death sentence because it places them into competing territories where they are not familiar with food sources nor denning locations. So they starve or succumb to the elements and predators. Also, habitats have a "carrying capacity" of predators, and just because you think it looks like a good place the toss a predator does not mean there is "room" for that predator.

http://webspinners.com/coloherp/cb-news/Vol-28/cbn-0110/RamblingReptiles.html

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:EdvxdPZZceEJ:herpcenter.ipfw.edu/outreach/accounts/reptiles/snakes/Timber_Rattlesnake/TimberRattlerFactSheet.pdf+relocating+timber+rattlesnakes&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Here is a link that might be useful: Solving Problems with Wild Neighbors - HSUS

If that's true, people should stop raising endangered species in captivity and then releasing them into the wild. Also, wildlife rehabilitation doesn't make sense in that case - it's not always known where they were found, so they are not returning to their home range. All these animals have less chance of survival than just a relocated animal.

"I would thing if the nestboxes were properly cared for (with baffles) this would not be a problem.

A baffle is not 100% protection, it was discussed in this forum http://nature.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bluebird/msg0720063126516.html
I wasn't just asking about the snakes, but for the good of the bluebirds, the brown thrasher in the bush and all of the other birds that are nesting around here.

"I know you didn't ask and will have many reasons to poison all the little creatures that are unfortunate to share your world, but for anyone else who actually wants to learn about the effects rat poison has on their environment, read this below."

House mice are not native creatures and they do a lot of damage and spread disease if left uncontrolled. The house mice never leave the barn and thereÂs no way a hawk can get them. I don't hate them, but my familyÂs safety and health is important to me.

Always had many, many black snakes living in the "cellar" of the family home. My dad would relocate them to the closest rat hole to let do what snakes do best-eat rodents. Would have left the snake in the barn and left him do his thing. Eggs would be eaten, but the mice and rats would be controlled.

Snakes have always gotten a bad rap and people still kill them. I have a six footer living in the woods-hopefully, he'll stay undercover there and leave the bird houses alone in the front yard.

I wish these snakes that live around here would eat rodents and not birds. Sadly, tonight I found a third snake and this time the snake was in the nest with almost ready to fledge babies. By the time I discovered that he was there he had already consumed one, but I was able to remove him before he consumed the rest. He already started to consume a second baby, he even had his head inside his mouth. He split him back out when he saw me coming. The baby has some scratches, but he should be fine. It was a gray rat snake, not black snake.

This is the lump the unlucky baby made inside the snake's belly :(

If all wildlife died when it is relocated, we would not be having the problem with HOSP today.

Linda C

So I take it the electric fence wire didn't work???

I was just about to ask that same question - going back to the original topic of this post.
What type of bird did the snake 'consume'? Was it from a nest that was 'protected' by the wire from the electric fence?

No, it was a bluebird birdhouse with a 24" baffle! I have 14 birdhouses, only 4 have wiring and rest have baffles. Now I have improved it for better protection - 4' baffle instead of 2'.

About the electric fence wire - I just wrote on the birdwatching forum about the Brown thrasher nest with same electric fence wire setup to help protect the bush from snakes (I posted pictures) http://nature.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bird/msg0622391128646.html Yesterday I saw a snake touch it, and it got zapped and backed up very quickly! I'm still not 100% sure this border will work if there is a more stubborn snake, or with a small snake that could squeeze under it, but now I know it IS working and a snake DOES get shocked from an electric fence wire when it's body is on the grass (the grass was dry). The pole has more wiring than the border, so now I think the electric fence wire may even be better than a baffle, at least better than the recommended small 24" baffle. Also, the birdhouse in the first picture (at the top of this page) has both - the baffle and wire, as I wrote last Sunday

It's strange, but in all the years I have lived here I have never had so many LARGE snakes in the yard at one time. I left a chicken egg in the barn last night for "snake detection" and also to help keep their belly full, so they might be less creative about how to get birds. The egg was gone this morning. Tonight I'll leave more. I feel like I'm in the "Snakes on a Plane" movie :)

OK that gives me an idea, I have electric fence around my yard at the bottom, my little poodle likes to dig out, would it be a good idea to make it around the bottom of the BB house somehow, so nothing can climb in?
I have snakes and I use a natural prooduct called "Snake-Away".
This stuff really works as we used to overloaded with BIG snakes such as Moccasins and CopperHeads.
It is just sulpher and it smells BAD to snakes they avoid it.
But I want to make sure they dont get too brave and climb the fence

Do I understand this right - you have a birdhouse on the fence? I think the bluebirders here would explain how and where to mount it, also you can't use an electric fence in this situation - the snake has to touch ground and the hot wire to get zapped, if the snake is already on the fence and the wire is only near the house, the snake will not be grounded to get shocked.
You really need to move your birdhouse from the fence to use any kind of protection (baffle, hot wire, or both). If you want to use a hot wire, you will need PVC pipe, not metal. You can set it up like my first pictures on the top of this page. I also recommend to buying a fence tester (it cost only a few bucks) to test after set up to be sure it's working. My fence charger is made for cows or similar large animals, it has 4000 volts in good weather and 1500 when it's raining. A fence charger for dogs may not be as powerful and could be less effective. It would be best if you do both - wiring and a baffle.

About sulfur - I was considering purchasing sulfur at one time, but I read it has no effect on snakes, some people are even using it in terrariums for pet snakes to deter parasites. I don't know if it's true, maybe I should purchase some and try it myself, the snakes are getting really crazy around here :)

When I was looking for a link to answer Debbie's question about baffles, I did a little reading to refresh my memory. Bluebirder's favorite website "Sialis.org" has information on using an electric fence!

Quote from there:

"Charged electric fence wire alternated with ground wires surrounding the pole is perhaps the most effective but it's expensive, requires power near the poles, and isn't recommended if there are children around."

Now I'm confused - you use this site as a handbook, so what's all the fuss about and why do the "experienced bluebirders" know nothing about it?

Here is a link that might be useful: Sialis.org - SNAKES

If I had snakes like that in my yard....I would relocate myself. YIKES!!!!