We've been here 9 years now, a duplex in a historical monument made from homes built for shipworkers in WWII, on landfill in San Francisco Bay. The same family had lived there for the entire time and the father grew a few yellow roses when he lived. When we got there it was 18 inches of clay covered grass. We simply dug holes to begin with and I interred my first 20 hybrid teas. Second thought, we built 8 inch high raised beds, spread them with every delicay and plowed them into the clay which the roses liked. I discovered own roots and ogrs about the same time. Over the last 9 years roses have been added, subtracted, different companion plants and CA natives added, gophers run off, hundreds of lady bugs added, thrip eating nematodoes, bird baths etc. I hardly spray a thing anymore. Plants that can't take it are gone. The high qulity prepared mulch that I buy and add by the yard, twice a year has made the soil delicious. It is my only fertilizer and the roses love it. The garden has become a living entity. The husband has become a loving gardener although some points of view are still at odds. Now we live in it. People walk by and tell me how beautiful it is and then murmer "so much work." Ya gotta do something in your life, growing beautiful flowers causes enough pleasure to be worthwhile. I love it more and more as the plants grow big, hummingbirds come to approve each time I water, the bees gently drone and the lady bugs seem to agree to eat all the aphids. I don't know what will happen to it when I go but for now it is a celebration and a testimonial to what roses do well in this part of northern CA. You have explained the process very well. Gotta go plant another geranium--they go with roses here. la

Ingrid, I have waited to respond to this post until my roses arrived. I ordered from Vintage and from Roses Unlimited. Both orders were shipped on Monday. RU arrived on Tues and Vintage (all the way from CA arrived today-Tuesday!) I ordered first from Vintage and received: 1. Gruss An Coburg 2. Lemon Spice 3. Cels Multiflora 4. Eminence Here is a pic of the little bands: By the time I decided, they had sold out of Iobelle and Grace Darling that I really wanted. I emailed Pat at RU to ask to be put on the waiting list for Sutter's Gold and she had ONE in stock. Since I was already ordering, I got: 1. Sutter's Gold 2. Grace Darling 3. Iobelle 4. Baronne Edmond de Rothschild Here is a picture of the gallon plants: Both Iobelle and Cels Multiflora came with blooms. I love them. Here is Iobelle: And a picture of Cels Multiflora I think she looks almost like a smaller version of SdlM. I am very excited. They'll go in the ground next week. Jeff

Thanks for the info about planting the warm season grasses. As far as the half completed lasagna bed, I pulled back some today and saw Worms!! This is good. So now I feel a little better about pulling this back, amending planting holes and then puting the lasagna compost back on the ground. It should continue the positive improvements I just saw. The NC area I live in, called the RTP area, is notorious for clay soil and land that does not perk. We live in a geological formation that has soil created from weathered sandstone and shale. The big "no no" around here is adding sand. It will make concrete here. They do say you can use washed "sharp sand". I am going to amend my planting holes with a lot of organic material, dig extra wide holes and elevate the plantings. I do not think I will be able to raise the entire area. I will incorporate some of the lasagna bed compost. I am also researching gravel to add to the planting holes. I have read some about 1/4 -10 gravel. This is a mix of 1/4 inch and .196 inch washed gravel with no fines. The fines being the very small particles that help make concrete with the clay soil. Seems like this is being used a lot in the Pacific Northeast. The gravel folks around here have never heard of this but they have something very similar called 78 gravel. I read an article by "Wind Dancer Garden" where they indicated they use this in all of their gardens to help soil drainage, I read on another web site where they even use this to plant lawn grass. My main problem now is getting this clay soil dry enough to work. Got all of my grasses and I am ready to plant! One other thing, the m. Graziella and m. Silberfeder I bought from Sooner Nursey seemed to have come in good shape. Nice size plants for 1 gallon containers. I have never purchased mail order plants before. I may have got lucky in ordering early and getting leftovers from last year before they got their regular stock in for the year. These may be larger plants than their normal 1 gallon plants.

Just hadda share about hawks. Came to this forum to ask a bird question but this post subject intrigued me so I hadda check it out. I've had a hawk in my area for several years now, but only seen him in flight or sitting up on top of a dead tree a block away. But what happend the other day was new to me. There's a small tree across the street that all my sparrows fly to after they feed at my front yard feeders. I was out in my garden and guess I got 'lucky.' All of a sudden, I saw a big bird go flying into that tree !! At first I thought it was a pigeon since I have to deal with them, as well. But it turned out to be that hawk !! I say I got lucky, because I feel as others have said, it's nature and I've never seen a hawk THAT close to the ground!! Anyway, birds scattered, flying out of the tree all at once, making a big ruckus. Then out flew few stragglers, then even a few more after that. Seeing some of them taking so long, I was sure he'd snagged one. I took a chance and walked s-l-o-w-l-y across the street to see if he was feasting on one (not to sound morbid, but once again...it's nature). I wasn't even sure he was still in the tree but as I got about three feet away, out he flew and then just stopped and landed on a fence post, only several feet away from me. He even looked over at me as if to say, "HA HA, you can't catch me, but I'll let you SEE me." He was close enough that for the first time in my life, I could see his markings, his eyes, his magnificance. I took a another step closer and of course, he flew away...towards my house, across the neighbor's roof and then off, off and away. But it was a wonderful experience for me. I was so taken aback that I called my mom and said I wish I had a zoom camera ALWAYS hanging around my neck. My camera phone just wouldn't have done justice. I'm glad he didn't get any of my 'babies' and don't wish death on any animal, but it's survival of the fittest. It's the balance of nature. Of course -- I need to state that I DID NOT read every post in this forum so I may be expressing something that is in total opposition to another post or even the topic at hand. If so, I apologize..... But I just HADDA share. It was soooo cool. bonnie aka brit5467