Just in case you may not know - we have an Exchange forum here - the tomato seed one is linked below. Might be worth checking it out if you haven't already done so.

Many other forums here also have their own seed exchange forums linked right above the first post on the forum's front page.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato forum seed exchange

Yeah I know, and I can't even participate because I'm canadian.

But this is more than just a forum tho. The site is different in its ability to generate list and have databases for people's variety lists. It's also what makes it more convenient than forums, specifically for the combined type of exchanges.

Below I've linked to a very good tomato variety data base. Tania lives in Canada. She does not trade seeds, she sells them, but at least it answers half of your question re a data base.

There are other websites which have seed trading Forums, where folks from all countries can participate but I can't mention them or link to them b'c that's prohibited here at GW and I could get banned for doing so. Sorry.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Tania's Data base

Yep I know tatiana's site, but it's a database that gathers information on tomato varieties. My database is different contains information on what varieties people possess. Forums are easy enough to trade, but what I want to do is make the process even easier.

There'd be no need to ask anyone anything and search for people to trade with or varieties to find. You'd just click a few buttons, send your package with your seeds and recieve seeds back.

Why don't you get a set of forums and make your own site to searve your purpose.

Here is a link that might be useful: Free Forums

I'll admit I'm turned off of the whole seed exchange just because I know I'm not going to find all the varieties I'm looking for in one trade, and I'm certainly not going to have alot to offer that one person either. It just seems like a lot of work to get them all.

Of course I didn't purchase them all from one source this year either. Bought from two sources and two free sase's. One from Trudi, another from a member here.

I also purchsed more vegetable seed from two more online sources that I didn't get toms from.

I think the idea sounds great if enough people participated. Would you be a hub to make this a one shot send in seeds w/ a sase and get back as many of the requested varieties as possible?

That's what Trudi does, but it sure seems like it's got to be a ton of work for her. Which is why I'll be making another donation next year.

I don't know if I'll be a hub, but people will have the possibility to register as such, and people who want to trade seeds will have to chose whom they want to trade with. That part isn't implemented yet tho.

Bty I realized yesterday that the site doesn't work with internet explorer 6, and possibly others. I'm still working on it, but it probably never will be compatible with ie6, as it's a quite old browser and one of the worse that people should get away from anyways.

I'm on a guvmint 'puter w/ IE6, some of my comrades are still using Windoz2000 or just now switching to XP. Most of us have had C2D for about 18 months though.

Thank you RJ!

Gol,

RJ is right, it is a ton of work to maintain a seedbank. Today I'm hunting down another set of pigeon holes to match the 120 I already have. I need to go to 180. And I just had to order two black toner cartridges for about $140. Egad, but you gotta print stuff. Like the labels and documentation for the seeds that just went to a Peace Corp worker in Honduras. Fortunately the bilingual labels will also work for the donation going to a hospital fair two months from now in Los Angeles.

I keep a cmoa disclaimer on the list page. If you set up a seed exchange/bank that's what you need to do first. Simply stated, seeds are natural and people are human. (The primary wordsmith for the USDA wrote my current website copyright and disclaimer statement--but that's another chapter in the story wintersown.org) however, if you're going to set up an online database/seed exchange/seedbank/seed anything, you must protect yourself. I don't want people using the WS method for sowing invasives and you don't want to be held accountable for disease transfer, failed trades, idiotic enterprise, and the rest of the human gamut of screw-ups.
The least amount of work for you is to set up an exchange forum--that's why I pasted in the make-it-yourself forum link. Make a sticky post with behavioral expectations--you expect people to honor their trades. Make another sticky post with your cyoa disclaimer. Make a forum to discuss shipping/mailing suggestions. Padding is a virtue, sending a flat letter is equal to trashing the seeds because they don't survive being crushed in high speed mail sorters. In other words, make a parameter of rules and expect people to abide by them.

You can divide the forums by varieties and/or heirlooms/ops

ops(gen F) of hybrids.

Whatever else you want.

If you're the forum master then those forums are your oyster and you its pearl. Bottom line, you are the owner, you are the boss, you are the webmaster, you are the sherrif. If you can't stomach controversy, heartache, heartburn, belidgerants and trolls, then this may not be for you. You are the posse, you are the judge and you are the jury. Spike gave me great advice years ago; he said "For the good of the ninety-nine you must get rid of the one."

So, I do think a seed exchange is always a wonderful thing for its sincere participants; but it is also, in reality, a time-stealing, sometimes anguishing and costly expense for the person in charge. As an analogy, think of Dorothy visiting the Great and Powerful Oz--he really was just a little guy behind the curtain and he had to pull dozens of levers and push many pedals and buttons to keep it all running smoothly.

It is a labor of love.

Just a wee voice in the wilderness here with a few comments.

I know folks like to trade seeds. I don't trade seeds and that's b'c there's a much higher percentage of varieties that are crossed, etc., than one would expect from any good tomato seed source. And I have lots of good sources from my many SSE friends as well.

For several years in a row I did a Wrong Varieties thread here at GW and that was a strong message, as to crossed, wrong seeds being traded. Seldom do traders indicate if they bagged blossoms or not, or grew varieties with geographical isolation in mind, or even indicated how old the seeds were. And some actually buy seeds to use for trading and have never actually grown the varieties they offer.

And speaking to Trudi's point about it being a nightmare for the person holding the seeds, I agree completely. There were times when I was listing several hundred varieties in the SSE Yearbooks so been there, done that. And SSE listings are not for trading.

my small plea is that you think about buying at least half of what you're going to grow b'c in these economic times the small family run companies that do so much to help preserve OP tomato varieties by offering them commercially, need your help.

And here's a few off the top of my head:

Tomato Growers Supply
Victory Seeds
Sandhill Preservation
Heirloom Seeds ( the one in PA)
Marianne's ( mariseeds)

Of course there are others but the ones above did very well as to true seeds, good germination and service in those Wrong Variety threads I used to do and there's no way I canlist ALL of the kinds of companies I'm thinking of.

it's your choice as to what you want to do re seed trading, I just wanted to speak up strongly about supporting small family run businesses that need all the help they can get.

Carolyn

This is an important concern that the varieties people will send are really what they say they are. That's why I want to implement a rating system for each users.

Let's consider that someone sends 30 packets of a variety in one package. After one years, 15 packets were sent to different people, and the holder still has the package with the 15 others left. If within these times a few people put a negative rating and commented to say that the seeds wheren't good, everyone that recieved one will be noticed so that they don't harvest those seeds, and the person holding the package can just discard them.

It's very effective, and all that is done with minimum work.

I also understand your concern for small family run businesses, Carolyn. There's a few things to consider however. In our economy, we have limited resources, so we have to chose how best to use them. If we can do the same amount of work with 2 people instead of 10 people, we'll chose the method that uses 2 people, and the 8 remaining will be able to use their time for something else. If we don't, we forgo the goods and services the 8 different people could have produced. This forgone output is called the opportunity cost and it's a central concept in economics.

We work to increase our quality of life, we don't work just for working, or else we would end up with giant meaningless cubes everywhere.

If we were able to make the process of exchanging seeds that much more efficient so that people would lose there jobs over it, it wouldn't be a bad thing at all. I understand that it might be difficult to understand, as people who lose their job suffer from it, but that's a consequence of poor wealth redistribution among society and lack of better social organization rather than the increase of economic output.

I'm not sure a rating system would be relevant without considering the location and skill level of the grower. Basically, tomatoes will suck in one part of the country yet excel in another. If someone keeps a meticulous garden, mulches, waters and takes care of fungal and bacterial problems yet someone else doesn't, one of them will obviously have a better success rate. What's to stop the inexperienced gardener from downrating a variety that didn't thrive for them under their lack of care? I hope you can work that out in terms because otherwise, a rating system may scare off beginners as well as experienced seed savers.

I do agree on the need to increase free public access to seeds. The economy stinks. That's why over the past year the WinterSown list has grown from a few dozen varieties to several dozen. I'm looking to go from about 120 to 180 in the next year...and I've got a few solanum cousins too. To heck with big or small business; if you don't have the bucks you don't need anyone laying a guilt trip on you too because you're not supporting an online merchant. That's heartless. Providing seeds to individuals through a seedbank is just a small part of what I do. Seeds go to home-schools, foodbanks, laid-off factory workers, employee health fairs, homeless shelters, immigrants, people living below the poverty level. Yesterday several hundred packs went to a Peace Corp volunteer for a village where the average person makes a few hundred dollars a year. Can you imagine the gall to tell them sorry, but you have to pay for half, here's where you should buy them. Most people who are recipients of non-profit seedbanks don't have the money for half their seeds. They don't have the money for any of them.

AND by the way, I don't see online seed merchants going down the drain too soon. Buying seeds is still cheaper than buying plants, and getting seeds freely is cheaper than buying them.

Just the same, to heck with Caveat Emptor. It's now Permissum Exigo Caveo ~ Let the seller beware.

Bacterial or fungal infections don't alter the DNA of a tomato or it's seeds, as far as I know. A plant that suffer from a of sorts might or might not be less resistant to that sickness however, or harbor deficient or mutated genes.

It would have to be proven however that non-commercial seed harvesters are less careful than commercial ones in choosing the best plants/fruits.

The rating is more for people sending crossed varieties, or varieties that aren't what they say they are. The odds of crosses and misplacement are surely higher, that's why the rating system will be useful.

To heck with big or small business; if you don't have the bucks you don't need anyone laying a guilt trip on you too because you're not supporting an online merchant. That's heartless.

*****

Trudi, I'm not trying to lay a guilt trip on anyone and you know that as well as I do, and I certainly don't consider myself as heartless when it comes to tomato seeds and all the seeds for hundreds of varieties that I've offered for a simple SASE at several places online for many many years. Not trading seeds, just giving them away and most are varieties I list in the SSE Yearbook and by doing the seed offers I make those seeds available to non-SSE members.

But I do know the owners of the seed companies I mentioned above and have for many years so I do have an idea of their individual situations. None of them are going out of business or anything like that. I just like to see support for their efforts.

Every one of us posting here is sitting in front of a computer that costs hunderds of dollars. Add to that relevant software, dial up or DSL connection monies and I don't see this issue in terms of lack of "bucks" as you put it. Just my own opinion.

I made a suggestion, I stand by that suggestion, and folks can make up their own minds what they wish to do or not do as I mentioned in my post above.

Carolyn

Sorry, Carolyn,

But I've heard this from other people too. I wasn't speaking to you or about you. I was addressing those whom have displayed that attitude. Sometimes things aren't about only you.

mkay?

C, most of my contacts for large donations come through governments and extensions, or non-profits. These organizations represent the people who don't have computers because they don't have the money to buy them or pay for the dial-up. A lot of them don't even have homes, unless you count a refrigerator box under the highway overpass.

Some people are lucky enough to have a small home paid for by the state, they can access computers at church, internet cafe, or a library or school. Not everyone on the internet owns their computer or even has a home. I just got home from a meeting of like minded people, we work to raise the quality of life for the utterly destitute. To me, arguing that people have computers and internet connections so thus they can afford to shop online is unrealistic. I'm just not a dot.com type of person, never have been.

===========================

Gol

It would have to be proven however that non-commercial seed harvesters are less careful than commercial ones in choosing the best plants/fruits.

A good FAQ for your exchange about the importance of culling would be worth the time to write it.

I do both. I trade seeds with other members and I buy seeds. I think by
trading there is a higher chance of cross-pollinated seeds (my opinion
only), but I know that when I'm trading. Fortunately for me I'm doing
ok financially, and I ordered from 3 seed companies. Heirloom seeds
in Pa. is the one I order from most. I did order a second time with TGS.
I'm not ordering from Seed Savers anymore. because they had the
highest shipping cost $9.00!, for what I wanted. Heirloom seeds $4.00
shipping. I know this is not about rating seed companies, but trudi
and carolynn, you both are correct. If you have the money, support
good small seed companies. If your on a budget, Garden Web has
many wonderful members that are very generous that offers seeds
for postage.

Linda