>>>> ellenr Could anyone direct me to a site where I could confirm this? I have always heard this is true, but would like to verify. You had me fooled ellen, I thought you were inquiring so you could catch them not turn in your neighbor. Youll get no sympathy from me. >>>Trapping is sadistic, Says you >>> and it is ridiculous to think you can free your property of groundhogs. Works pretty good for me. Id rather battle a couple than a couple of dozen >>> Hello...isn't there always one to take its place? Better one or 2 than a dozen >>>I know someone who has been trapping squirrels for years. Ive trapped bushy tailed rats for 5 years now. I wont tell you how many, I wouldnt want to give you a coronary so early on a Sat morning, emergency rooms are full on the weekends, but YOU WOULD BE SHOCKED. Its a never ending battle, I have to do the same thing every year, like planting the flowers, cutting the lawn, tilling the garden, planting the garden, weeding the garden, bagging the leaves, removing the varmints, get the picture? All part of the never-ending list of tasks. >>>LOL. What I makes me LOL is people who spend all that time and money taking care of their flower beds, veggie gardens and lawns only to see it destroyed day after day after day. Nature had a plan for pests like squirrels and groundhogs. Predators! Civilization has squeezed out those predators, which results in a squirrel explosion. Ive taken over where Nature left off. >>>Sure if that is how you get your jollies. You think I like paying $3 a gallon for gas? >>> Don't imagine you are keeping your property critter-free. Pretty close. We use to have waves of 6 7 squirrels at a time grazing multiple times a day, on everything they could find, rummaging through flower pots/beds, digging up the shallots, poking holes in tomatoes, digging holes all over the lawn etc, etc. etc. To give you an example, I NOW have 4 pots of beautiful gerbera daisies on the front steps, planted from seeds. Took me 12 weeks of caring, watching, watering and fertilizing. I HAD some squirrels that took a liking to the flower heads, they would wait till the next flower stalk came up and then poof, it was gone. Now the squirrels are GONE, I actually get lots of flowers now, never would have happened if I didnt trap. My neighbors absolutely love me; their flower bulbs actually come up now. >>>> since no matter where you 'relocate' them to, they will try to return to their territory. 3-4 miles is all you need, I know cause in the beginning, I use to put a little shot of latex paint on their tail to verify they werent returning. I never did see a white spotted bushy tailed rat. >>>> Visual stimuli like strobe lights, mylar tape, scarecrows, and scare-eye balloons. For only so long, they quickly become accustomed to them. Witness the groundhogs feeding just feet from the curb along the side of many of New Jerseys busiest highways. Didnt take long to realize the cars wouldnt hurt them. >>> and loud noises. My neighbors would just love that. >>>In my cosmology people who trap animals will return as animals and die slowly in a cage in the sun and temperature of 90 degrees and be eaten by ants. With full consciousness. Thanks for the good laugh, I gotta save that one and pass it around. I'll leave you with this, A squirrel a day keeps the critters away.

I would like to update my case. The HOSP made one more attempt (when the wounded BB baby was still alive, but seemed could not compete for food), but that time I noticed that BB parents behaved strange and hesitated to enter the house, though they did not sound very concerned. Just in case I approached the house and stuck my finger in, as soon as I puled it out, the HOSP male flew out and I even touched him, BB parents chased him away. If I knew it before I could catch him. I checked the BB babies and they were fine but scared. I was sure that day the HOSP would not return, The next morning, 2 days later after the first HOSP attack, I found the wounded BB dead and the BB female tried to carry him out. I made her leave the house, took out and disposed the dead BB (smell was already bad). I decided to exploit the smartness of the HOSP against him. As I mentioned he leaned that the spooker was not dangerous, and fishing line was also useless against him. I opened the front wall and left it open to serve as a perch site. Instead I attached two-entry patch and stuck it with a scotch tape. I was certain that the HOSP would be too smart to ignore the sudden transformation of the BB house. Besides the house started looking more scary, like having two big eyes. The other thing I pursued with this transformation is to have emergency exit or entrance, since the HOSP would not be able to block the both holes at the same time. With the 2 holes there was more light inside and I could check the nestlings without opening the door. At first the BB parents were confused, but shortly they figured out their babies were still inside and doing well. As the result I have not seen the HOSP around anymore, the BB parents became more defensive and the three BB babies have fledged yesterday. Now I need an advice or opinion: a) I take the BB house down until I significantly reduce HOSP population. Actually the HOSP infestation was not too bad first, but then numerous young HOSPs fledged from the neighbors house and the area became heavily infested. That house is like the HOSP farm, and at the same time HOSPs would almost never seat on my roof. b) I keep the BB house with the transformed front wall, c) I restore the house to its original shape, where I can set up a trap as needed. Thanks. This post was edited by stal14 on Wed, Jul 2, 14 at 11:24

Good luck with yours theanimala. I'm with you on the regular Electrolux over the Icon. To correct some of my earlier comments, I looked at the regular Electrolux again at Lowes last night. It does have a grill below the control panel that vents directly out into the room and there are vent holes at the top and bottom of the door that apparently draw air from the kitchen down between the door panels and out the bottom. I guess this is to keep the door cool??? Then I went to look at the other ovens on display. All have some venting at the top but many are smaller than the one on the Electrolux and some have small louvers to direct it up or down. Most of the ovens, including my Dacor, also have slots above the oven box (between the broiler and the control panel) that line up with slots in the section of the door when the door is closed. It looks like the air flows from above the oven box, then down between the door panels and out the bottom. Does anyone know if there's a major difference in functionality between the two methods? I'm pretty much sold on the regular Electrolux as long as it doesn't make the kitchen significantly hotter than other models. As to my concern about the continuous gap between the glass panels on the Icon door, I had to laugh when I justlooked at my Dacor oven and it had the exact same thing. ALL the ovens have vents, thus the ability to get gunk between the layers of glass but this does give a little easier access. I guess reading a post about someone getting gunk between the glass of their brand new Meile made me a little paranoid. OTOH, the glass on my oven door is black so you wouldn't be able to see any gunk between the panels anyway. I'd still be a little nervous about all that open access to glass on the Icon.

I'm in the southernish CA area and we've noticed over the years that when there is a variation in the weather patterns, particularly during cold weather, we will get birds coming down out of the mountains and hanging around the house until the weather warms up in the mountain regions and they go back home. We have a couple of phoebes hanging around right now and they won't stay off some solar lights that we received as a Christmas gift :^) We get so few unique birds out our way that we are generally happy to see something new. My guess is that they are just looking for a place to hang out until they can go home in a few days. You've gotten good advice about how to deter them. FWIW, bird poop is usually pretty easy to wash away and they probably haven't moved in permanently. Oh, also, the fires/burn areas can change bird habits from what I have heard, so depending on where you are in relation to where there have been fires, that can have an effect on where birds end up. About 15 years ago we regularly had large groups of hummingbirds that would migrate through. We'd hang out huge feeders so they could stop and feed on their way through. Then we had a few large fires to the north and that seemed to change the migratory pattern and we haven't had any large groups since.