the 2 recipes are almost identical. 2 qts chopped peeled cored tomatoes 1 1/2 cups chopped seeded hot red peppers 1 qt vinegar divided is the same as 8 cups (64 ounces) canned, diced tomatoes, undrained 1½ cups seeded, chopped Serrano peppers 4 cups distilled white vinegar (5 percent) the rest is minor. But I like the recipe or both recipes. but I still have a question for Zakker. How do you grind up the peppers. blender or food processor or something else. *****using 1:2 vinegar. That a lot vinegar purchase!! I take it you mean 1 part mash to 2 parts vinegar. I suspect this is a common ratio that commercial people use. I suspect some of the cayenne people use more vinegar to dilute the salt. but lousiana hot sauce is cayenne mash with vinegar and it is kind of salty. Might be able to figure the dilution from the final salt and a good guess on the starting salt. Of course all mfg will rave about their process of making hot sauce. Tabasco sure does. But it seems to me that if you add 2 units of vinegar to the 1 unit of mash then why bother fermenting. You have so much vinegar that you may as well just use the pure vinegar method. Just putting the question to you to see what you might say. I really wonder if you can taste a difference. I would say that any fermentation taste is gone from tabasco. It tastes like flavored vinegar to me. And aging the tabasco sure is a waste of time and energy. I can not imagine that doing it with say a couple of weeks aging would be just as good as the 3 years of aging they claim. and the oak barrel might be ok for wine but I doubt it does anything for hot sauce. and what do you think of lamalu's 2 quick easy recipes. no fermentation. nice tomato taste. John do you know if you can ferment the tomato juice. Can we mix tomato juice and hot peppers and ferment them. The problem I see is that the tomato juice is already pretty low acid so it might not ferment properly. by the way pretty cool that you could purchase 100 pounds of hot peppers. I assume at a good price. Bye the way I have never been a cayenne fan. To me they always seemed hot without much flavor. just blind heat. well at 50,000 SHU they are hot and I dont find much flavor. For example I like habanero at say 350,000 SHU with good flavor. for some reason they do not have that same heat that cayenne has. However, It is interesting they have a new hybrid cayenne type with low heat. that has possibilities because the cayenne has nice high yield. so in a small garden maybe I can get more pepper for my hot sauce. then heat it up with other stuff. but zakker you seem to talk about the flavor of cayenne. so i find that interesting. what do you think of other pepper flavors. or maybe you like to get the flavor from the food and add the heat using cayenne. Bye the way ship 100 bottles to me pronto.

Congratulations, it sounds like you have the real deal, but they must be very small kefir grains, which will continue to grow the more frequently you make kefir with them. As they grow they will become a gelatinous (rubbery) "glob" that looks a little like a cauliflower. The grains grow for a never-ending source of kefir grains, which is the beauty of kefir grains over making yogurt. Kefir is also healthier for you than yogurt. You don't say how many grains you have - would they fill a teaspoon, tablespoon, or 1/4 cup...? The ratio of grains to the amount of milk you are fermenting will also determine how long you need to ferment your grains in the milk to make kefir. I use approx. 1/3-1/2 c. of grains to 2-3 cups of milk in a quart jar. When they get as large as a quarter, I'll pull them apart into 2-3 pieces. Sometimes they will separate themselves at the weakest point the larger they get. Just make sure you wash AND rinse your hands thoroughly before you handle your grains. Any remaining soap residue on your clean hands can transfer to and affect your grains. The more frequently you make kefir, the quicker your grains grow. So if you only have a small amount of grains (say enough to fill a teaspoon or tablespoon, you will want to use a small amount of milk - up to 1 cup until you get some growth, then use more milk. I usually make 2, sometimes 3, consecutive batches (make a batch, take the grains out and immediately start the next batch), then rest my grains in 1-cup of milk in a pint jar in the refrigerator until I need to make kefir again (within 7-10 days). I make this much once or twice a week, depending on my needs. The one cup of milk I rested the grains in will have enough good bacteria in it from the grains that it will also make kefir sitting at room temperature, even after the grains are removed. The grains float to the top of the kefir and I use a plastic slotted spoon to gently scoop them out. That will help to keep the curd (the solid part) whole. This is important if I want to drain the whey out of the curd and use the curd as a substitute in a recipe for sour cream or cream cheese. If you shake the kefir, the curds will break down and you will have a liquid, which I use as a substitute in recipes calling for buttermilk. Once the curd is liquified, it will remain a liquid. Kefir curds are smaller than yogurt curds (which makes kefir easier to digest than yogurt), and the curds are more delicate than yogurt curds and easily destroyed (mixing, shaking, etc.) Only ferment it to the point you like the results (thickness or taste). The longer you ferment it, the more tart the kefir will be. The warmer the ambient temperature, the quicker the kefir will ferment and the more tart it will be. I might ferment it for 8-12 hours in the summer when the ambient temperature is much warmer, but 18-24 hours (or longer) in the winter. I personally like the kefir best made in the winter in my cold kitchen (which is a little cooler than your temperatures), because it is less tart and smoother. I use kefir every morning in a smoothie (1 part kefir to 2 parts fruit juice - orange/pineapple is a favorite, but we use a variety of 100% fruit juices), plus some flaxmeal, hi-maize resistant starch, and a powdered supplement we take, and I mix it in a Hamilton Beach Drink (Malt) Mixer. When I get extra grains, I also ferment coconut milk (especially good by itself, topped with homemade granola for breakfast or snack, or mixed with orange/pineapple juice for our morning smoothie). I buy coconut milk powder (Wilderness Family Naturals - on line at http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com) and reconstitute it in water like making powdered milk, but you can use coconut milk in a can as well. I'll make one to two cups of coconut milk at a time using 2-4 marble-size kefir grains. I rest the grains in cows milk between batches, but continue to use these grains for coconut milk. I'll also take some of my extra grains and ferment grape juice. The grains won't continue to grow, so after a few batches of grape juice they will fizzle-out. I'm going to assume you read Dom's Kefir Insite web site. It's the best one for information about kefir. You will get your own rhythm for fermenting kefir. The more you make it, the quicker your grains will grow. But you will also need to find ways to use it. I was an avid yogurt maker for 30-years until I got my kefir grains (about 10-years ago). Now I make kefir all the time and only make yogurt a few times a year. The link below will give you some ideas what to do with the whey if you drain your curd. Along with lacto fermentation of vegetables and soaking grains using whey, I use it in the summer to make whey lemonade, which is a wonderful thirst quencher when working outdoors. Better than sports drinks! -Grainlady Here is a link that might be useful: Prairie Homestead - 16-ways to use whey

TEN HOURS????? I usually have yogurt in 4-hours. How much liquid and what kind of "milk" or mixture are you fermenting, and how much culture are you adding to it? Two quarts + 3 T. yogurt is a fairly standard ratio. If you are using leftover yogurt from your last batch (or several subsequent batches), it may be getting weak and you need an infusion of new bacteria from new (commercial) yogurt. I'd also suggest using Stonyfield Farm Yogurt as a starter. While all yogurt brands with live active cultures have 2 bacteria strains, Stonyfield has 6 live cultures and I think it improves the yogurt quality. You can use an ice cube tray lined with plastic wrap, and put 1-Tablespoon of the Stonyfield yogurt in each cube and freeze it, pop the yogurt cubes out and store them in a container in the freezer to use later. When you need a new starter, you can use the frozen cubes of yogurt (thaw in the refrigerator) as your culture, the next time you need a new/stronger culture. -Grainlady (the 3 a.m. early bird)

marita...my understanding of what you should receive when you purchase the grains online is a dried product that takes approx 7 days to fully rejuvenate. There are exact inst. on the net for how to reconstitute dry grains. I haven't heard of anyone sending out wet/slime grains :) There are no grains per se in my kefir since the weather has gotten cooler. But...today just to help out with your research I let a jar of kefir set out in a warmer place and it has indeed formed a large mass of grains floating on a bunch of clear whey. So it is indeed temp related. I had another jar of fresh milk and 2 tsp of grains sitting in a cool place in the kitchen since this AM and it has become my usual jar of soft yogurty type stuff with no separation and it is ready to go into the fridge to be used in a smoothy in the AM. All temp and time related. As I said...at cool temps it is highly unlikely that you are going to get any distinct grains/curds. It will all be soft cheesy stuff. If I were to put mine in a strainer most of it would stay in the strainer just as yogurt does. When it was hotter weather it drained out a lot of white and clear together and left drier distinct curds...again it is all temp related. I would not give up on what you have. It tastes pleasant...it smells pleasant. When the temps change so will your kefir. I hope you cont. to enjoy. I have now shared my grains and they are living in Montgomery AL and Lexington VA !! It is a wondrous process. c Oh..ps about resting the grains. I take 2 tsp every AM of the current kefir that I am going to eat and place it in a jar of fresh cold 2 % milk and leave it in a cool place for 12 hrs and then place it in the fridge over night...Next AM take out 2 tsp and place in cold milk and leave out....then in fridge and repeat. As far as rest...well they are in new milk every day and they are at a pretty cool temp and the source has been in the fridge all night fully fermented but very cool and waiting /resting. As my grains seem so happy I am not going to change anything. If your grains are happy and taste good I would say " yes" to the process you are following.