Hello and welcome! The ideal answer is to put up as many as you can WITH baffles. If you offer housing you are responsible for the safety of that nesting. 10 houses with baffles is better than 20 without (as long as they are far enough apart)you would need a lot of property to support 25 pairs of Blues and their offspring. How large of an area do you have?

I have them spread around 60 acres and appx 2 miles of dirt road.I also have 4 martin houses in the same area.I made 7 more peterson style houses this winter and have a total of 27 in this area now.I know this sounds like alot but the tree swallows, chickadees and wrens use them also. I mount them on T-posts some already have barb-wire on them so I take the top 2 barbs loose slide the house over the post and rewire the house and barb wire to the post, so you see it is hard to get a guard over a post with barb-wire already attached.This is why I think it is better to put up more to avoid nest box competition because the BB's and tree swallows really fight like heck over these boxes!! Jim

Hi jimnks, I agree with you completely and am greatful that you are spending the time and energy to provide homes for the birds. Having 60 acres is awesome!!!!!

Dear Jim, I personally would rather part with the cash to provide some sort of raccoon protection as opposed to worrying at night whether everyone in my boxes are safe. Before I baffled my boxes I had an instance of predatation by a coon and that was all it took for me. I was on another forum and was nicely scolded about not having my boxes baffled. I know people that have only a few boxes but refuse to baffle,they offer lame excuses like they don't like the look and what have you. The nature center near me has scores of boxes on their property and every one is baffled. I have been depressed for long periods of time after something bad has happened to a family of blues or treeswallows, so by protecting them I'm also protecting myself from misery. There are enough things that we can't always protect them from but I don't want anyone to die because I omitted one important thing from my set-up. I wish people would leave dead trees on their propery instead of taking everything down. But even then the *&!?! hosp and starlings manage to beat the blues to the natural cavities. It all sucks but I am a warrior for my bbs and tres!

Hello all,I do this for a hobby and take my grand kids with me on the ATV when we check the houses so they seem to enjoy this as much as I do but as some get older their interests change but hopefully when they get old enough to have their own place maybe they will provide some housing for the BB's also.I understand that guards are better but for me I can't put them on fence posts that already have 5 barb- wires on them.
I have had 2 black snake issues in the last 15 years,no racoon issues that I am aware of, I think I had an owl attack because only 1 chick fledged out of 5 as their numbers kept disappearing.I have had one box struck by lightning,one tore up by a tractor pulling a field cultivator(lost all 5 within 3 days of fledging) and one nest with all 5 babies about a week from fledging dead in the nest(must have lost their parents). I have lost more birds to HOSP, actually found them dead in the box pecked to death, with the HOSP in 3 cases making a nest right over the dead bird! I think HOSP and starlings are alot worse enemies to BB's than anything else.I feed Hosp #9 shot administered thru my 12 guage shotgun!! Just my opinion, have a quality day. Jimnks.

jimnks....how do you know you haven't lost any nestlings to coons? How often do you monitor the boxes? The reason I ask is becauce the first year I had bluebirds on their second nesting just five days from fledgling they were eaten by coons. I know this for several reason. I monitored how many eggs were laid, when the female started incubating, when they hatched and knew how old they were so I knew when they would be fledgling. One morning I realized the adults were all upset and I looked in the box...the babies were gone...they had been 12 days old. Nest was not disturbed no sign of anything until I started searching the ground very closely. I was able to find 2 or 3 pin feathers with blood on the end. That was all that was left of those five baby blues. The house was mounted on a wooden post. It is so not worth having boxes up if you cannot mount them properly. Had I not monitored as often as I do, I could easily have assumed they fledged cause the adults would have been gone from the area shortly.

What do you mean about the owl attack as only 1 fledged out of 5 and their numbers kept disappearing? If they dissappeared from the nestbox it sure wasn't an owl...most likely a coon.

Placing birdhouses on fences is a bad idea. They need to be on a slick metal pole that can be baffled. Teaching kids how to properly install nestboxes to keep the nesting birds safe would be a better idea....

Donna

I forgot to ask Jim about monitoring,I just assume anyone that posts on a bluebird forum would just naturally be monitoring their boxes. Also do you use sparrow spookers? They save a boatload of babies every year, as you said you've lost babies to hosp. Spookers are so simple and cheap to make, it's inexcusable not to use them UNLESS you have too many houses to manage. Please check the Sialis web site, there's much to learn. And if it's really just about making pretty houses to show your kids, please close the holes so no one gets trapped and made into 'coon midnight snack.

I monitor my houses weekly, I know appx when they are going to hatch by figuring out appx when the first egg was layed, then after they are appx 10 days old I don't disturb them until they leave the nest, so they don't try to fledge early.
Donna,the reason I assumed it was an owl because I am pretty sure if it was a coon they would have ALL been gone in the first attack as you said yourself, yours were ALL gone after a coon attack, I lost 4, one at a time in a matter of about 10 days and their was no sign of blood or feathers on the ground.You said if they disappeared from the nest box it SURE wasn't an owl... If an owl gets them they sure DO have to pull them out of there cause they sure as heck can't get in there to eat them, can they? Did you read my post? Where did I say I mounted them on a wooden post?A T-post is a METAL post.
Lexarose,I HAVE read the Sialis web site,I have read pros and cons on the sparrow spookers, and I think it sometimes deters BB's and TRES(my opinion) I also tried that monafilament line trick with no success.While you think people should leave up dead trees,I am pretty sure coons and snakes can readily climb these (I seen a blacksnake take out a starling nest in a dead tree years ago) or should the dead trees all be baffled too? You know it takes a little effort to build,monitor,clean,spray for bugs and repaint these houses yearly but I enjoy doing this.I really don't see anything PRETTY about a peterson style bird house but they are very functional.I do know this, their are alot more BB's in this area now than when I started here, ask my neighbors!! The way I do it is by no means perfect, but I would think this way is a whole lot better than doing nothing or letting them nest in dead trees atleast they have more options for a nest cavity! Jimnks

Wow jimkns...a little defensive aren't you? If owls hunted by reaching their feet into nestboxes and pulled chicks out there would be a lot more nestlings gone. That is not how owls hunt. Now that I reread tposts (metal) and one baby gone at a time I can almost guarantee you that it was a coon...this is why...After our coon attack on the box on a wooden post all our birdhouses were put up on conduit. We didn't baffle them right away though (my husband didn't think a coon could climb 1/2" conduit). Most of the boxes were Tree Swallows but if a bluebird chose the box we baffled them. So they slowly got baffled one by one. Well one year bluebirds chose a box that wasn't baffled and I didn't get out there and baffle it right away. One morning during my nestcheck I could see some grass and hair on the pole and found two babies missing. Had I not been doing daily checks the grass/hair would of dried up and blown off and not left a trace just two babies missing, the nest was messed up this time though as they were only a couple days old. I put up a baffle, fixed the nest and the three babies left went on to fledge. The morning after I put the baffle up I went out and found a coon print on the bottom of the baffle but because of the baffle it didn't and couldn't climb up. I believe the conduit made it harder for the coon to get a good hold while it reached into the box and grabbed the babies, it probably got two and fell but then came back the next day to try to get the rest. Probably what happened to yours too, cause it sure wasn't an owl! Hopefully you can learn from my mistakes and help the blues instead of setting them up to be eaten. Baffles are needed!

There are no cons to sparrow spookers except if you don't use them if you have a House Sparrow problem. You don't put them up until after the first egg is laid and take them down once the nestlings fledge. Once a bluebird has laid an egg they won't abandon the nest because of the spooker. They work....you should really use them! In fact I had a sparrow spooker on my Dees box last year and it didn't stop the TRES from landing on the Dee box at all. They routinely sat on the spooker. I could put them on TRES boxes before nestbuilding and it won't stop them.

You really should A..baffle your boxes and B...learn how to properly use a sparrow spooker. Oh and C...keep an open mind when advice is offered..it is usually good advice.

Yeah I get my feathers ruffled a little when people use words like it SURE wasn't an owl, it is INEXCUSABLE not to use sparrow spookers,please CLOSE the holes on your nestboxes, are these words of encouragement? Sorry if I got on the defensive about that.
Now you say an owl will not remove nestlings from a nestbox cause this is not how they hunt.You may be right, all I know is a man I stopped and talked to a few years back as he was monitoring his BB trail told me that an owl will hold on to the front of a house and reach in and pull those little ones out of there. He had made a guard out of half inch square wire mounted over the entrance hole to keep the owls from doing this, maybe he was wrong but I thought it made sense.
Isn't that a con to a sparrow spooker you have to put them up after the first egg is laid and then take them down before they come back to re-nest and them put them back up again? I don't have time to check my houses more than once
a week and I don't like to disturb them more than that anyway.
I don't mind getting advice that's why I asked the question in the first place,just didn't need to be told everything I was doing is WRONG and you need to plug your entrance holes on all boxes, and ALL advice is not necessarily GOOD advise in all circumstances, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers but this is my opinion.I am waving the white flag(but in no means surrendering, just want a truce) Have a nice day!! Jimnks

jimnks...ok I will say, I highly doubt it was an owl instead of it sure wasn't an owl. The only way I could see an owl doing something like that is if a baby was leaning out about to fledge and an owl saw it and flew down and grabbed it, that I could see but not an owl landing on a box and reaching in searching for food. If that was the case it would be documented everywhere and there would be owl guards or something to that fact by now. The other comments made weren't mine but there are some of us serious bluebirders who do get our feathers ruffled when we offer good advice and it isn't taken and then babies or worse yet an adult is lost to a coon or HOSP. I do know some people that have huge trails don't monitor boxes but once a week either. I have five boxes that aren't on my property but aren't far away either and I still check them at least every other day. I do practice sparrow control with van-erts in my boxes away from my home also. If a sparrow is starting to build a nest in goes a trap and shorlty there is one less sparrow. If I set a trap I do it in the evening and check it in the morning for my boxes that aren't in my yard. I would think (hope)if you are loosing blues to HOSP you would want to try something to stop it from happening again.

Plus baffles do work so if you can please put up baffles, stovepipe is pretty inexpensive.

Generally natural cavities that are used are old woodpecker holes which are much deeper in a tree than a nestbox is, which is why coons don't normally bother a natural cavity.

Regarding owl guards, this man that told me that the guard I mentioned was for owls was his opinion, but I have seen several BB houses with this guard on them in my area and they were not his.Well I don't know about documentation but there are people that have purple martins and have OWL guards on their houses so if owls pose a threat for martins who nest in a house or gourds why wouldn't they possibly be a threat for BB's who also nest in a box? I have 12" deep cavity's on my martin houses to try to help this owl problem. I am just saying in my opinion while listening to others I beleive owls can land on boxes from what others have shared and can pull birds from the box if they can reach them.
I do practice HOSP control,if I have a problem I hunt them until I can shoot them this sometimes takes alot of time as they can be very skittish if they think you are after them. I have the luxury of living in an area that I can use a shotgun whereas most people can't.Those little rascals are hard to hit while flying at times.
GENERALLY holes in natural cavities are much deeper thats why coons don't bother them is what you said. Well,I have cut down quite a few trees in my time and some had nest holes and in my opinion most of the time the peterson style nest box is deeper than the natural cavities and snakes can get in those deep cavities anyway!!
In my original post I said baffles are better I just can't put them over a T-post that has 5 strands of barb-wire on them, it just won't work!So in response to my original question is it better to put up 25 houses with no guards or to put up 3 or 4 with guards and force the surplus BB's and TRES to use natural cavities or possibly not find a nest site at all,(I thought that was the purpose of putting up nest boxes to start with, because of dwindling natural cavities)your answer would be to put of 3 or 4 with baffles. I DO respect your opinion but by now you probably realize I possibly don't agree with everything you say, ( LITTLE humor there with that word possibly) Have a quality tomorrow, TRES showed up today life is good, Jimnks
P.S.Still waving the white flag!!!!

Jim,I feel it is better to have less houses with baffles than twice as many with no baffles. Quality always trumps quantity when the goal is to preserve as many of these birds as we can. I want them to choose natural cavities,but I offer the next best thing. Also if they have failed nestings they may not come back. If you have alot of bbs now can you imagine if all the nestings were protected? These poor ceatures have so much stacked against them how can you not want to do all you can for them, or let them move on to property where they can find a natural cavity or to Donna's or my house where they'll be watched like hawks ;)

Lexarose....your comment made me laugh. Seriously my daughter complains to anyone who will listen that her mom feeds the bluebirds before she will feed her own daughter. Sad to say it is true!

Donna

I respect your opinion that less houses with baffles is better than twice as many without baffles,even though I don't agree.I also think nesboxes with deep cavities are better than natural cavities (which are not equipped with baffles either.)I thought that is why people started putting up nest boxes in the first place because the natural cavities were dwindling, and by offering more cavities even though they were manmade it has helped the BB's make a comeback.
I also think if everyone that had INEXCUSABLE houses with no baffles took them down it would hurt the BB and TRES population tremendously, this is my opinion.
I think I am doing my share to help the birds and I get alot of pleasure out of this hobby. I also think that anyone who takes the time and effort to put up bird houses is doing a good thing.I don't have time to watch my houses like a hawk but I commend you for your efforts! I have got to go check them before it rains cause it has been a week, no nests started yet.
Jimnks

Jim, where are you located? Sounds like a nice property!! It doesn't say under your member profile. You can also add your email address, clippings, favorite forums, and trade lists in your member profile. Christy :)

Christy, I live in NE Kansas about 35 miles west of KC, I have 31 nestboxes out and 4 martin houses up. TRES and BB's are staking claims to boxes, but no martins yet.
We have been gone for 5 days snow skiing or in my case snow stumbling that's why I haven't responded to your post.WOW in 5 days redbuds and bradford pears are in full bloom, asparagus is up in the garden and grass needs mowing, but it is still raining here in Ks.
I didn't know how to fill out a member profile as I am not that great on this computer, how do I do this?
Life is good here, I have to get the lawnmower out so Lucky (thats my wife) can get started on her mowing! Have a quality day!! Jimnks

Sounds beautiful :) I am new to this house and blue birding. I have my first blue bird nest box, and have many purple martins around but did not put up a house for them, yet. Apparently they like to nest on the front porch, and they've already been checking it out!!! Go all the way up to the top of this page and click on 'Your Profile'. You can add your email address and any other info. If a member wants to send you a personal email, they can through your member link. Christy :)

Christy, are your sure they are purple martins? Purple Martins would not be interested in nesting in your porch. Sounds more like a barn swallow to me. They are in the same family but Martins are bigger than Swallows and are cavity nesting birds like the Tree Swallow. Barn Swallows like ledges to build their mud nests out of. Purple Martins nest in gourds or the birdhouses made for martins and need a large space around the nestboxes where there are no trees and they prefer their houses up high from the ground too. Tree Swallows nest in the same kind of boxes as Bluebirds do but a Purple Martin would not fit in the hole of a Bluebird house, they need bigger holes. Look these three birds up and see which it is you have.

Donna

Just a comment on the original question from jimnks. If you aren't interested in improving your set-up why even ask if no baffles is ok? I would think most people here are trying to help the blues the best they can. The thought of many bb babies and moms left unprotected at night in unbaffled boxes doesn't sit well with alot of us that love these birds. It will never be ok to have unprotected boxes and it will always be ok to have natural cavities nests UNLESS the other choice is a protected box. Learning to improve what you have is why people come to these forums. But you are not alone there many people that refuse to protect their nest boxes. I think it's sad.
On behalf of the raccoons on your property: thank you.

Very well thought out post Lexarose. I agree with you.

@Lexarose......clap,clap,clap
very well said!!

Donna

Dzyg, I haven't gotten a close look at them, have glanced at them through blinds. The man that owns my home told me that they nest on the front porch every year, I can only take his word for it. There are a lot of purple martin houses in my area, I am now familiar with what their nest boxes look like. Hopefully I'll get a closer look at them. I haven't seen any evidence of a nest, but I keep looking!!! Christy :)

Christy, if they nest on his porch they are most likely barn swallows. Purple Martins are cavity nesting birds, that require a large open space to get to their nests. They wouldn't nest in the overhang of someones porch.

Many people don't know the difference between swallows and martins. Female martins and young martins resemble swallows but are larger.

Donna

LEXAROSE,I said baffles are better in my first post, I just can't put them over a post that has 5 strands of barb-wire attatched to it. I use the METAL posts in the fence line to mount the houses on not the wooden ones!I did (in my opinion) improve my setup by putting up 7 new boxes this year, I think that is trying to help the birds.
In my opinion you are creating a natural cavity when you put up a nest box, look at all the different kinds of birds that nest on the ground, in trees, in low bushes they do this without guards and I am sure some fall victim to predation but a percentage of them still survive to carry on the species this is called Nature and sometimes Nature is not fair or so some of us don't think so anyway. IMO nestboxes are better than natural cavities, if they weren't why would birds use them instead of searching out natural cavities?
I thought this forum was for opinions and discussion, and I didn't know anyone was the JUDGE and JURY that had the final say on what is right and what is wrong. If I didn't care about the birds why would you think I would go to all the trouble to put up nest boxes in the first place?
I am 62 years old and have been doing this for the last 15 years, I know I have done some good although in your opinion what I am doing is INEXCUSABLE,I do respect your opinion though. One thing I have learned thru the years is to take the words NEVER and ALWAYS out of my vocabulary, because very few things are NEVER and ALWAYS right or wrong.
I will not be posting about this again so you can tear me apart, but to all you people out there that have taken the time to put up nest boxes with or without guards, the birds thank you and I thank you. Martins showed up yesterday, have a quality day, I will! Jimnks