Sorry, internetiot, ur thread on EW was hijacked but there only so much one can say about them. My suggestion is treat any area u want EWs like one of those EW farms u can purchase to raise worms in, 1) add organic matter (kitchen waste, veggy peelings etc., shredded paper, leaves, grass clippings, etc. 2) if worms don't show up fast enough for u buy some worms. Territorial Seed Co. and other seed companies sell them. "Seed" the area u chose with them. TaDa worms in ur garden. spedigrees, good sites thank u. kimmq, GM, GE, GMO is a process that you and I can't do, unless u have an elaborate lab tucked in ur garage - I don't. I love Gerbera Daisys, my budget only allowed for the purchase of 6 light pink. One of those plants was a lighter pink, yes yes, I will protect it with my life (not totally nuts just budget limitations). That said I needed/wanted more lite pink plants so I stuck my finger in the lightest pink ones every time I passed by, when it produced seed I planted them. It took 2 tries before I had results, 14 plants, will they be like the mother plant? Since I did not "bag" those blooms some other little "helper" could have had a go at the same lite blooms. When these new plants bloom I will know if I succeeded in producing more lite pink Gerbera Daisys huh. If a pollinator, wind, or me caused the resulting lite pink blooms I consider it all a Natural way, if me or nature produces something that, like me taking the bloom from a white Gerbera and rubbing it on the pink one, it is nothing more than what a bee could have done. Still a natural process. GM, GE, GMO, requires manipulation of the DNA with elaborate equipment in a lab. :)

I wish this post came with a solid answer, as I am 100% dealing with the same problem. I live in eastern WV. I have a small 50 gallon pond with 2 filters- one for the spillway/waterfall, the second for a small fountain thing and a frog thing that spits water, and a layer of smallish rocks at the bottom. We shutdown the filters for winter, and at the beginning of April we went out to clean the muck and debris that had accumulated. There were giant (and by giant, I am not exaggerating when I say one of them was at least 10" long) earthworm looking things EVERYWHERE in the water! They were NOT dead, some of them seemed to be grouped around what *looked like* bloated ticks (that's what I originally thought, but after some research, they might have been eggs?). We got out the ones we could see, put a water clarifying agent in the water and started the pumps up. I tried to research what the heck we were seeing, and I couldn't get a solid answer because of these people who just want to argue about what you actually saw in your own pond. It wasn't limited to this page. April 18th (about a week or two later), the spillway pump was down to a trickle, and the water fountain had tiny little worms (these looked like tiny earthworms, not red in color) coming out of the holes. We took the filters out, cleaned the muck off from them and found tiny worms were INSIDE the filter mesh. Soooooo.... we went out and bought some goldfish to put in there. Fish like worms, right?? Obviously a tiny goldfish isn't going to eat a 10" worm, but we were hoping they would go after the babies... eggs... larvae? Two days ago, April 27, the spillway was slowing down to a trickle again, the fountain was fine, though. Again cleaned muck, found worms. My husband pushed some of the rocks at the bottom around, and more of these giant worms started popping out. We decided to just start shoveling the rocks out. There really wasn't any plan beyond that, just get as many rocks out as we can, and go from there. So. Many. Worms. This time I got pictures of some of them! As my husband is shoveling these rocks out (being extra careful not to puncture the lining, or a goldfish), I'm spraying them off with a hose. Besides the giant earthworm looking guys woven through the rocks (and very much alive), there's teeny-tiny red worms attached to the rocks, as well. What the heck is going on in my pond?! The internet has not been helpful. I've learned more about worms than I ever wanted to know, but I have zero answers to my own problems. I either have glycera bloodworms (because of the tiny red worms), nightcrawlers (because of the full grown looking worms), and/or non-biting midge fly larvae (because those are also tiny red worms called bloodworms). Terrifying fun fact, glycera bloodworms have metal teeth, and they bite 😐. I wish I could go back to last year when the only "problem" we had in the pond were tadpoles. Help? Anyone? Suggestions (besides taking a flame thrower to my whole backyard, my husband said that isn't an option)? This is too much nature for me. Nature is gross. At least they aren't African Jumping Worms, because that's a thing. *gag*

Great link, David. And a good read. David, you may not have take the time to read all the novels in the thread and I can't blame you, but the University of Minn relies on the exact same research I've been talking about being the core of all of this so pasting anything from them is just essentially repeating what joepyeweed linked and also supports my claim that there isn't that much study out there supporting the work I question. Only many sites repeating the same source. Note that your other info (pasted, not the link) is very reliant on such words as "presumably" and "may". In other words, reliant on assumptions made and thus can't be presented as fact because it isn't one. Of course, they are much more able to admit this than the UofM group, it seems. I read the whole article, but I read it fast. So if I got something wrong here, please correct me: 1) The author readily admitted that the experiment used adult worms while in the natural site there were primarily hatchlings. I'm guessing on this, but I have a feeling there is a reason they didn't find many adults and it might have something to do with a reduced lifespan in colder climates. This leads to longer incubation periods of the cocoon and so the adult feeders aren't around that long. Using adult worms essentially nullifies the experiment because the adults have at least a month of voracious feeding that the hatchlings won't have. Hardly replication of nature. 2) It is mentioned that the growth of plants increased. Not decreased because of the worms changing the environment. 3) It is mentioned that the most pronounced change in microbial composition was caused by "Time". Not worms. And if the correct age of worms were used in the first place I imagine the rate of change caused by worms would have been even less. It mentioned that water was next in affecting microbial change and that water also affected the rate at which worms could make any changes. Kind of stands to reason that the amount of climate change we have experienced the last 30 years could have more to do with the soil issues than the claims of UofM that its the evil invasive earthworm. The earthworm is simply showing an ability to withstand climate change better in comparison to many of the other life forms in the soil. Not to mention (actually I already did earlier) the chemical changes in rain due to pollution. pH of water greatly affects microbes and worms are much more resilient than many microbes to these changes. Just because there are now more worms in one spot and less microbes doesn't mean that the worms are the culprits. It could also mean that the worms are simply surviving changes that microbes can't and taking advantage of any changes they might have the means to take advantage of. This study actually takes other variables into consideration and admits shortcomings. It's a REAL study that presents real findings from what appears to be an objective standpoint rather than an "I need to make a name" standpoint. Joepyeweed, the heliocentric theory is also one that was refuted for quite some time even though there is a ton more evidence supporting it. Mathematical evidence. But, it is important to note that we all take this as FACT because we think it makes sense. Not because we all understand the mathematical evidence. Why is that important? Because at one time the other theory, geocentricity, made sense to everyone because those in authority told them it does. And when it was challenged with heliocentricity everyone ridiculed those that challenged geocentricity and many people died supporting the use of reason to refute the accepted "scientific" claims. Just like the global warming example I used (except for the killing the opposition part). Thanks for your support in pointing out that just because scientists make claims, it doesn't make it fact and using reason can punch holes in unreasonable claims that don't take all evidence into account. What example is next, the round earth? I'll head you off at the pass. Scientists laughed at the square earth theory based in the Bible, which mentions the corners of the earth several times. Obviously it's a flat round disc! It leaves a round shadow on the moon. But wait! It's a sphere! No it's not, the authorities say it can't be because the bible says the earth sits on four pillars and has edges! It took quite some time for people to use reason to refute what authorities on subjects wanted us to believe in order to uphold reputations and control. And don't try to tell me those people were less intelligent. Ancient peoples were able to survive in environments most of us would die in because they were much better thinkers. Yet, they were able to fall for "an authority says it, it must be true".

LOL Gee, I never thought of myself as a 'Japie' before! In fact now that you ask, I never really knew the meaning of the word! We used to call people from the farms 'Plaas Japies' so I suppose it means people who are from a certain place ie farms. Would this mean that people from the city wondering around in the rural communities are 'Dorp Japies'? There must be a place to get earthworms in SA without having to import them from North America. We used to sink a fork into damp ground just about anywhere but especially along river banks and wiggle the fork. The worms would come up to the surface on their own. - I miss fishing for mud tasting fish on the Vaal..... If there are no worms there naturally, then introducing them might not be a good idea because they might die in that soil type. Perhaps amending the soil, by adding organic matter might be the key. Chris - in beautiful but cold Canada. ps Japie is pronounced sort of 'yaapie'