Hmm... I can't tell which one either. Thanks for trying to find it though. Isn't bald cypress one of the trees to start dropping needles early before rest of the trees? I guess we will have to wait till Nov-Dec to find out for sure.

I was told that they are planted directly into caliche soil. Do you see "white" dirt/rocks around?

The whole campus is on caliche, but is very manicured around the buildings, so the mulch covers the white rock. Over in the area I work, the data center, we have some natural areas where we can see the limestone.

Sounds like those BC trees came from Central Texas rather than East Texas which I suspect most are planted around here. We have caliche over here as well. Almost all BC don't look as good as the ones at Frito Lay.

Pam,
Can you get up to the trees, or will ill tempered grounds keepers / security start screaming and hollering, screaming and hollering, AND SCREAMING AND HOLLERING THEN THE HANDCUFFS COME OUT AND THE BILLY CLUBS.......... oh, flashback.
; - )
J.D.

I can get up to the trees JD ;-)The gardeners don't work on the weekend when I do. Only problem with that is I can't get a pic of the whole tree when I do that. Do you want some cuttings? If ya do, should I wait until the BC defoliate to make sure that they are MC? I saw no knees under any of them.

Pam

Pam,
lou_midlothian had some info that suggested cuttings from the sides of the trees would not establish a true central leader.

You're going to have to dig up the whole tree for me.
J.D.

I am going to borrow an expression that Sylvia uses....snork ;-)

Maybe some seeds then? Are your trees mature enough to produce seeds yet?

Mine isn't 'making' yet. Don't go to the trouble for me. I DO appreciate the offer :-)

Lou gave me a source (YuccaDo) that has seedlings for $12.50. Probably not worth the effort to grow from seed - for me anyway.
J.D.

Lou, I have 5 Bald Cypress, and they are among the last to drop their leaves. Pam, I do have "knees" all over the place from my BC, but have been told there is a variety that does not make knees (why didn't I know about this years ago?), so don't know if that will be a clue as to whether they are Bald or Montezuma cypress.

Carrie,
Over in the discussions area, Lou remarked that the Montezuma's don't produce knees like the Bald Cyress do. They are apparently more drought tolerant and grow well in caliche soil too. At my old house we had a Bald Cypress that had to be 40 feet tall and sat right in an underground spring, I loved the smell when I mowed down the knees ;-)

Pam

Hmm.

I guess not all montezuma cypress look alike, I guess. The one I found a couple miles from my house looks very different than bald cypress. I thought that would be easy enough to tell the difference. I guess there is too much genetic variability to be able to figure out. Supposedly, bald cypress won't grow knees if the ground isn't frequently saturated. The central texas source bald cypress is supposed to tolerate high pH soil better than East Texas. How much, I have no clue.

There is MC-BC hybrid 'Nanjing Beauty', i've seen pictures of them and ALL look the same!

Here is a link that might be useful: pics of Nanjing Beauty,,,

Lou, I can tell you from first hand experience that Bald Cypress will put up knees no matter what -- I have two that got very little water, and grew much more slowly than the others, but they still put up knees. I really think they can't help themselves. I have areas in my yard that I really haven't decided what to put in as yet because the knees are so embedded and large. I do have some ideas, though, and I think it can be made into to something very eye pleasing.

Carrie,

How long before they started to grow knees? I counted 5 bald cypress in my neighborhood and wondered how long it would be before they grow knees if at all. It looks like it is dependent on genetic. Some just grow knees for no reason. Some grows them if the ground is saturated all the time.

I think someone posted pictures a while back of bald cypress trees in San Marcos and I didn't see any knees and they are big trees. Where did you get yours from? Were they East Texas BC?

You know, Lou, I cannot remember which nursery I bought these from (it's been 12 to 13 years ago), but Miller's comes to mind. It was in the Mesquite/Garland area somewhere. I really do not know what kind of BC they are. As I said, I was so unknowing at that time that I thought they had to be by water to put up knees. They have grown much more rapidly than I anticipated, also - they are quite large.

Hi Pam!

Can you spot montezuma cypress at Frito Lay now? ;)

I noticed that MC trees over here still have green leaves while bald cypress trees have turned color.

p.s. Take pictures, pretty please?

Lou

Pam,
Dittos (what Lou said).
J.D.

I'll snap a picture on Friday when I go back. I snapped a few a couple weeks ago when they (BC) were turning (and they mostly looked the same), but haven't revisited since. I bet we can see the difference now.

Pam

Thanks Pam!

Can't wait to see it!

Lou

Pam,
How fast can you run? I'd give a dollar or two for some seeds from that MC. (give a lot more for the picture of you running from security)
; - )
J.D.

J.D.,

Talk about the ultimate breeding if it's the only one MC in the middle of BC forest! Better give Pam 20 bucks... They are so darned sticky! It took nail polish remover to take resin off my fingers! LOL

Lou

Lou,
Don't give her any ideas. LOL
j.d.

I'll try to find some seed pods...security won't care, they think I'm a crazy tree hugger already ;-)

Pam

Pam - if you can do that, I,I,I,I................ would buy you a jelly donut.
J.D.

Well, I scored some seeds for the two of you to share. I was surprised to find the seedpods smaller than those from the Baldies. Ya'll need to email me your snail mail addys so I can send them, though. Man, they are quite sticky, I have resin in my hair. I am including some pics.

In this one, you can see that the Baldies are quite nekkid already.

here's a closeup of the massive trunk...no knees in spite of the proximity to water

Pam

Hey Pam!

Thanks! Just how big is it? You said massive trunk but I can't tell from looking at the picture. I guess a magazine up against the trunk would have helped but no big deal! I thought the one in midlothian had huge trunk for a tree that is around 15 years old! Is the Frito Lay MC noticeably larger than BC trees there?

Is it the only MC there and rest are BC?

Nail Polish removal works great at removing resin, better than rubbing alcohol! :)

Thanks for the pictures!

Lou

p.s.

I sent you an email...

Hey Lou!
I see what you mean about perspective. It's probably 35 feet tall...in picture number 1 at the top of the thread, it's the one in the middle that looks darker green. While it's not a lot taller than the BC, it has a larger trunk circumference and is broader through the canopy. I got your e-mail and will mail the seeds after Christmas.

Pam

Pam,

I've sent you my snail mail address. I REALLY appreciate it!!

j.d.

I am very invyous of you people with bald cypress, i have recently become obsessed with this tree, i love its swampy look, and am in hopes of getting a few seedlings (took some from outside a wookplace last week) the mow over them weekly so i imagined i wasn't doing any harm, the dont even have grass growing well because of all the seeds that have fallen, i collected roughly 500 and cleaned most of them while helping my parents with their garage sale. I have put half in my compost and half in a ground stump area, waiting till next year to see if any seelings start. Nice looking trees btw.

I have some friends with a very large bald cypress in thier front yard and they must water a lot because their BC has knees around the base. He complained about trimming/mowing around them and I suggested to turn it into a planting bed and tuck ferns and other shade loving plants between the knees so he wouldn't have to deal with running the mower over that area. The same sized BC's at our elementary school don't have knees since the landscape there gets very little water.

Hi gold3,

Try Deno Method aka paper towel method...

Give the seeds hot water treatment (near boiling temperature, drop seeds in the water and let soak for 24-48 hours), then place them on moist paper towel that is on the bottom of flat plastic container. Cover them with moist paper towel then leave them in the fridge till March and take them out and just leave them on your computer desk by the window. It may take a month for the seeds to germinate at 70 degree temperature.

That is what I plan on doing next time. I tried sowing but I only had 5 out of hundreds and it took up too much space so I'm not doing it again.

I've tried Deno method on Japanese maple and shantung maple and it worked MUCH better than just sowing them in the mix and hope for best.

The 5 seedings that I have grown from the seeds came from this cypress (honestly I have no idea what it really is)

{{gwi:368925}}

A cypress expert at Stephen F Austin State University told me it looked like Montezuma cypress and asked for the seeds so I sent 400 seeds to him and he said the seeds are larger than typical MC seeds but smaller than typical BC seeds. Maybe western BC (central Texas)?? What set it apart from rest of BC in my area is that it is unusually dark green and more dense than other BC growing in Midlothian where it sits on top of limestone bedrock. That tree is a mystery for sure....

Hi Pam!

How did the cypress trees do at Frito Lay place this summer? Someone was nice enough to give me Central Texas BC seeds that he collected in Frio Rio town(or river?).

I didn't have much success with the seeds you gave me unfortunately. I'm gonna have to try and get a bunch of cones off MC there and try a different method of germinating seeds (Deno) where I just place seeds on wet paper towels and cover it with another wet paper towel in the plastic flat container and leave it in the fridge till mid March to sow them and leave them inside while it's 70* degree inside for fast germination. At least that's the theory with Deno's method. it worked a lot better with maple seeds.

Hi Lou,
I don't know because I left Frito-Lay in April. The trees are in a public area so you could go there and collect more seeds if you like, just follow the signs to the Headquarter's Building...the trees are next to the parking area. Sorry they didn't sprout for you.

Pam