Thanks Token! Those look great. Agh, I seem to have missed the boat! I'm tempted to try with a heavy mulch - maybe I'll sow some now and some in winter and see what happens. Don't you just love echinacea?! I love purple and have several loropetalums, and i think purple echinacea w/ loropetalum is one of my favorite combinations!

A cold frame in zone 7? I'd have fun with fall vegetable gardening in that case. Lettuce, radish, green onions, kale, asian greens, peas, and all the others that don't mind cooler temperatures. You can check out Territorial Seeds. They have a winter gardening section on their webpages to give you lots of ideas - even if you don't buy your seeds from them. BTW, I've had very good results with their seeds. FataMorgana Here is a link that might be useful: Territorial Seed

I've hesitated to reply because I don't know! only want to sympathize with your dilemma. At our old house growing young roses up a bit in pots was basically a failure,because of lack of light, but here at the new house I can see that it's very different: plenty of morning sun and afternoon shade. So this fall I'm thinking to pot up all new roses,but just for one season. I, too, find growing roses in pots too much work and just can't keep up. Like Kes Z, I am much more concerned about losing roses to heat and drought (I'm in Italy, about a zone 8,but my garden has a south-western exposure, so it's protected from North winter winds, but subjected to terribly brutal summer sun). Still, I've always mounded/protected baby bare-root roses planted out in fall/winter, just in case. I guess in general I'd vote to plant them out in the ground,especially the larger ones,but I think I might protect them. One way that I've done this successfully is by using pieces of styrofoam-you know, those odd-shaped pieces that are used in packaging so many things? I break these up to smaller sizes, if necessary, andmake a sort of little corral around the canes of the rose,holding the pieces in place with stones,earth,whatever. Then I fill in the top a bit with other pieces,holding these in place with sticks,teepee-style,or use wine corks. I like this way of protecting because the materials are efficient insulators, but also sterile so bacteria and fungus aren't encouraged.You'd only mount these potective teepees once the temperature really drop.If some are still very, very tiny, you could keep those few in their pots.

So you aren't looking for a vegetable plant, right? If not then the various flowers forums would be of more help. There are forums for Annual, Perennials, and various varieties of shade tolerant hanging plants here at GW. http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums Dave