Mike, Unfortunately I have to start over with my ice cream banana because i left it out in the cold. I'm currently moving and might try with a metal halide indoors. While we're on the subject of tropicals though I have a miracle fruit (Synsepalum dulcificum) in Al's 5-1-1 by a window with a cfl which is currently flushing yet again. It initally dropped all its leaves back in march but its come all the way back. Hopefully I'll get some fruit from it soon. I also have a second one of these trees- I put it in the 5-1-1 but with Sphagnum instead of peat. It dropped all its leaves and has done nothing at all for the past 3 months. The moss is very slow to dry but I hear these love water so I don't know whats wrong with this one. Maybe it needs humidity indoors to get it kick started. If anyone would know, i'd love to hear. I'm anxious to try growing some citrus this summer. -Greg

Was the fruit you refer to very sweet, smaller than normal, and highly flavored? I've been told that the best fruit in CA is grown dryland in areas with winter rainfall, deep soil, and old drought tolerant trees. That says the exact same thing to me that you stated above. @Fruitnut, Yup, exactly, especially with the sultana style grapes. Although with some fruit it's more to it than just small and sweet like with the grapes, for example pomegranates can get pretty complex flavors on the spectrum of sweet to tart when they're in the middle there of both and when the pits in the seeds become negligible instead of hard as wood chips- or when a nigra mulberry is just huge and so juicy but still extremely flavorful or maybe you've seen here but I haven't when a fig is so ripe the red pink nectar is oozing out from the bottom hole or when a pomegranate bursts open on the tree from the sun fully ripening it not bursting open from a disease or because of excess rainfall. But yeah, definitely a trend of smaller and sweeter exists I'd say- another common example of that would be the strawberries- they're tiny/mushy not aesthetically pleasing at all compared to grocery store strawberries here looking epic and beautiful... but the taste is something else with the small ones. This phenomenon of not watering the wild fruit (which are usually in not so easy places to go pick the fruit) has a name for it in Iran- "bash" lots of different fruit can be "bash" meaning grown wild in drought like conditions. I suspect the trees are pretty old too. I think pomegranate exists like this too- I've had fig and grapes bash before. All that being said, I've had some of my best fruit experiences here too. I was actually born in Virginia am pretty proud of our watermelon and peaches here :). The mid-Atlantic and South can grow very delicious fruit- I've always been impressed with how good fruit can taste in the U.S. once it's actually grown right instead of bought from a typical grocery store. BTW lots of fruit is now being imported to Iran along the same lines of typical grocery store fruit here and it's messing up the market for good tasting local fruit. I'm afraid in very short time if not already typical Iranian fruit markets will be worse than grocery store fruit here... before they all see the light again and start going old school/eco-friendly/green/homegrown/local/organic what have you like what's happening here.

shastensis, According to Dr. Bob Zybach of Oregon the old growth in the Northwest was comparable to today's old growth over a century ago in the settlement era. He studied fire history in the state of Oregon and believes most of the trees were second growth when the white man came. Zybach has said reports of Douglas fir in excess of 300 feet are mostly stories that cannot be documented, and he has said that the city of Vancouver BC was a prairie before the white man came. I think his views are the minority opinion. He was a reforestation contractor for 20 years, so I value his input. Most estimates I have seen suggest between 70 and 90% of the biggest and oldest Douglas fir forests have been logged in the past 130 years. In some places like Southern Vancouver Island up to 99% of old growth fir is said to be gone. One need only look at the hundreds of old logging photos of giant fir and cedar to get an idea of how large the lowland forests once grew, and in places like present day Seattle, and Vancouver BC. To deny all of this pretty much tells me one would have to be a lobbyist for the timber industry, but that is just my gut feeling.

This is a new reply to an old post, but there are native live oaks in the area roughly between Ft. Worth, Abilene, and Wichita Falls, Texas that should work beautifully in your area. For some reason, nobody has developed commercial cultivars from this area. Live oaks, especially along the northern margin of their range, can vary in their characteristics. The ideal would be one with dense foliage that stays dark green all winter on a non-stoloniferous tree that branches With strong crotch angles. For commercial growers, it would probably require two trips to western North Texas—one in February/March to identify trees with the right characteristics, and once again in September/October to collect acorns. Maybe ten years of field trials would be in order after that. Of course this would be more of a long-range project than collecting an annual or perennial, but it could fundamentally change the landscape in Tennessee, Kentucky, and the Eastern Seaboard up to Philadelphia or maybe New York.