Update: I was so worried about bacterial canker, I cut the worst one(the one with the skinny stem) to see if it had the reddish-brown inside that I read is proof of bacterial canker. Even with the skinny yellowed base of stem and the awful leaves, the inside looked perfectly healthy. Will bacterial canker ALWAYS have that color of inside if it's an infected plant or does this mean maybe my problem is something else?

can you posta pic ,its so much easier than imaging what you describe ?
did you fertilize them ,are they too dry now ? did they get wind burn ?

Here's the pics I took of them today. Sorry, I wanted to post them with original post, but my husband had been using the laptop so even if I took the pics I couldn't have uploaded them. Now, photo sesh done and a new Flickr account later... :D

My tomato seedling problems

I tried to get the pics to be as crisp as possible, which then made me realize that my camera's a little on the lousy side for close ups. Hopefully you can see it well though! :)

They shouldn't be too dry, I usually water about every other day. I don't think wind burn, just because like I said, I'm almost positive it started a few days before I started to put them outside. I have put a fan on them here and there while they were growing, but I never had any seedling problems until now. And I did fertilize them, but about 3 weeks ago.

Actually, after seeing some pics online of wind burnt leaves, I'm starting to doubt myself. Maybe it did just start after putting them outside...but it really hasn't been very windy. It's more like a breeze here or there. I did leave them out there a few days for something like 5 hours though...I don't know if the combo of slight breezes and that long of time at the beginning of the hardening off stage could do it? What do you think by the pics of the chances of it being that or something like bacterial canker? I got the seeds from TomatoFest and one packet from Burpee's, the Sungold ones, so you'd think they'd be clean seeds...

YOur babies look pretty good to me. Just remember, tomatoes grow like weeds. We tend to baby them much more than they require. If I understand you correctly they are six weeks old and you fed them at 3 weeks? I dont usually apply ferts that early but some do. You should DILLUTE any instuctions by at least half, one fourth is better. Tomato seedlings are EXTRMELY sensitive to any kind of ferts, yard spray, etc. Any time you see browing at the edges like in some of your pix a likely culprit is too much food. Does your potting mix have any added ferts? Often they do. Weak stems are sometimes nothing more than seedlings reaching for light when there is not enough. Once they have at least two true leaves you can repot them and cover up the weak stem all the way to the leaves. It will grow new roots along the stem. Linda

Suncity, do you really think so? Even with the two pics of the worst plant, the one I pulled? With that and the other pics, you don't think it's anything serious?

As for the potting mix, I used the Jiffy Seed Starting Mix. I looked on the package and online, and by golly there's no positive answer as to what's in it. I read on an old Garden Web post someone saying it was 50/50 peat moss and Vermiculite, but I don't know if that's for certain. And if it was over feeding, would it have really taken 2 1/2-3 weeks to affect them badly? It seems tomato seedlings are affected and also bounce back within hours of an issue.

As for the stem issue I had had, the stem itself was sturdy, holding up the plant although at the beginning of its life it was leggy, but it was at the very base of them stem where the problem was. And I do plant to plant most the stem when I transplant them out. Thank goodness for a beneficial solution to leggy plants! ;)

Also, did you have any idea as to the leaves curling upward in my photos?

Angela: you said this is your first time gardening. Do you mean first time growing from seed? Or doing any vegetable gardening at all? You have taken on a very ambitious, complicated project. I've been growing tomatoes for more than 20 years and this is my fifth year growing from seed. Every year I go through some of the same kind of anguish you are experiencing. The first year I grew from seed, I grew hybrids like big beef and early girl. They grew well and I got over confident. When I started several heirloom tomatoes the next couple years, I began to see lots of problems, especially with potato leaf plants. My opalkas were weak and spotted and grew very slowly until they were planted out for several weeks. Eventually most of the heirlooms I started worked out OK, but they were never hail and hearty like the hybrids.

I don't know where people got the idea that tomatoes are easy to grow. They are the hardest veggies of all I grow. You just have to learn from your mistakes and keep trying. If ones you had your heart set on fail, find a good garden center and buy some starts from them.

Another point I want to make is that it is very unlikely that any of the problems tomatoes have growing outdoors -- like bacterial canker or even underfertilizing -- are likely to be problems for seedlings growing in sterile potting mix inside. Low light and soggy soil cause almost all the problems you're likely to see. The plant with the weak stem is more likely to have expierenced damping off, which can come from low light and soggy soil. Try watering from below, increasing the light and adding a little ventilation. Your plants don't look mature enough to be hardened off yet to me.

Sorry, I do not find tomato seeds at all difficult to germinate and grow and I have always grown mostly heirlooms. I do not have any special lights and I use those jiffy peat pellets everybody curses. Last year I started about 300, this year I have tried to cut down. I dont lose many. The primary problem you seem to be having right now Angela is that your seedlings are top heavy. They have not grown sturdy trunks able to support the green growth, brought on no doubt by the ferts. I suggest repotting to get some growing mix over the weak stems as soon as possible. In the future, take your seedlings outside, weather permitting as early as possible. Mine go outside from the day they pop unless it is under 50 degrees. Some growers use a fan to artificially create the breeze your plants would experience outside. This helps them develop strong trunks. Because I live in a fairly moderate climate I have the luxury of letting the wind help build my babies up. For others, buy a fan! Good luck. Stop stressing. Gardening is TO RELEIVE STRESS not CREATE IT. =)

I germinate my seeds, and plant the fastest germinating seeds into grow trays that sit outside. It's probably all in my head, but I feel that if my seeds are allowed to break through dirt while they're outside, then it makes them a stronger plant as compared to seeds of the same age that are germinated and grown inside for the first few weeks of their lives.

We get scorching hot sun down here, but as long as the seeds pop up through dirt while outside, i've never had to harden my plants off or anything like that. I don't lose many either - usually birds are more of a problem the the sun.

Having said that, a torrential rain will force me to move my seedlings under my grow table where they are sheltered from the rain, but as for normal sun and rain, never had a problem.

I currently have 5 Brandywine (Suddith), 12 Mortgage Lifter, 8 Early Girl, and 10 San Marzanos all in the ground at least 12-15" tall each. As long as you plant strong seeds in dirt, give them water, sun, food, and shelter them from torrential rains, they'll usually handle the rest for you.

For the OP, some seeds are just "duds". They might germinate if you give them long enough, and they might grow if you baby them, but in the end, it's better to go with the strongest seeds/seedlings you have because the slow seedlings are slow for a reason and it's not likely to get better to the point where you'll be glad you fussed over them.

If I want to grow 10 plants, I will germinate and use the strongest 20 seeds. Out of those seeds, I take the strongest 10 plants for myself. The rest, if I have room, i'll keep them, but if not, there is never a shortage of people wanting free tomato plants. So, my advice is to start more than you want, and when it comes time to plant, pick the strongest ones to fill your planting area. This way, if you have a couple that aren't doing so well, it's not messing up your plans.

To Ohiofem,
That's crazy that you've been growing tomatoes for twenty years and yet just five years you've been doing seeds! And by "new to gardening" I mean NEW to gardening. lol I liked the idea of starting from seed because you get more plants for the money, TONS of varieties to choose from, and, being a stay at home mom of an eight month old, it's been fun to take care of. :) As for heirloom versus hybrid, you ain't kiddin'. My Sungolds are the rock stars. They look awesome and are bigger than the rest. Yeah, they are also cherry tomatoes, but as others have said, a lot of times hybrids are that way-super growers. As for not as easy to grow, it's funny because yeah, my pepper and broccoli plants haven't scared me yet like the tomatoes have a few times. haha That's also good to hear that the problem isn't likely bacterial canker. I was just heartbroken thinking it might have been last night. Looked up the Tomato Girl company as a back up plan should my plants not make it. My local nursery has mostly hybrids and a few heirlooms, but none that I was really interested in. As for hardening off, I got some advice from a guy at the local nursery that my plants seemed to be too large for this stage, so I should start hardening off now to slow down their progress some. That way, he said, I wouldn't have to transplant to bigger pots within the next week or two before I plant them outside. He said then they wouldn't have outgrown the pots they're in now.

To Suncitylinda, I did notice that having the fan on them helped bulk out their stems. They used to have pathetic thin stems when I first came back from vacation. See, my first year gardening I planted the seeds, then, having to go to Washington to visit family for two weeks, told my husband all the knowledge I'd learned, and then left the next day. I learned almost everything from reading online and reading forums like this, but, since it's my first year gardening, I had never put any of it into practice. lol Bless my husband's heart though, he tried his darndest to keep them alive, and they did pretty well, except they got leggy. That's what I fixed once I got back. The people at the nursery told me they were leggy, put a fan on them, and gosh darnit! It worked! :D As for sitting them outside, hahaha! Being in Utah, in a NORMAL winter(this one has been uncommonly warm), when I started these seeds there'd be some snow still in patches! Lucky you to be able to put them outside once they pot up. I'm jealous. ;) Also, thanks for the reminder about gardening is to DE-stress, not increase it. lol I know I can't be the only one who stresses about these kinds of things-I see posts like mine every day on this forum. We want our babies to grow up right, and lead productive lives, just like our real kids! ;) So thanks for all the advice ya'll and reminders to just relax. I gotta keep in mind what you said about they grow like weeds. I think maybe we do tend to over worry. I know my seedlings seem to pop back real nice and quick after a problem may arise. :)

To Bobby,
About the planting more than you need-I know. I'm so glad I assumed for some not germinating, and some didn't. And even still, I have three of each that popped up, so even if one died or didn't look great, I should still be fine with my planting adventures. ^_^

So, after listening to everyone, I've decided to not freak that it's bacterial canker(thank you Ohiofem!), chill and take whatever happens, and just in case my problems arose out of wind burn(as a pic I saw does look a bit similar), am hardening off my plants in our 3 sided carport, so no serious breezes bother it yet(thanks both of those to Suncitylinda!).

I want ya'll experts to know. Being a newbie to a field that one could never in a LIFETIME master, I'm so grateful ya'll take the time to help people like me. I know you must get tired of all us new to growing asking you so many questions about possible diseases, how to plant, what varieties are good, but I know, at least for me, knowing ya'll are willing to answer our questions definitely keeps me going. It's so easy to get discouraged, worry you don't know what you're doing, so it's nice to have ya'll telling us we're doing alright and keep it up. :) Hopefully that doesn't sound too cheesy, 'cause I mean it.

Hi Angela,

What part of Utah are you in? Just curious since I am in Southern Idaho.

Overal I think your plants look pretty good. The curling leaves is from stress, often an indicator of over watering, but I kind of doubt that. If anything, I think you may be under watering for plants that size. That could easily account for the crispy edges.

When my plants are that large, I usually put at least a quart of water in the tray every 2 - 3 days. If you started with "20 squirts a piece" I would have thought you'd need to increase that dramatically by now. As Ohiofem said, it is generally considered a best practice to water from the bottom. I put that water in and give it about 30 minutes to soak up what it needs, then either drain the tray or siphon the excess water out.

Plant them deep and those adventicious roots will grow and support that stem where you may have had some problem with damping off. (It is usually more common in smaller plants, but can infect larger ones too.)

Betsy

Pot the poor things up. I use scavenged pots from a local garden centre, 2" square and 4" deep. Regular sized coffee cups would be large enough. Don't forget to put holes in the bottom of the cup. I put a half inch of potting soil (amended with slow release 10 10 10 optional) in the bottom. I then put the seedling all the way to the bottom. If the seedling is higher than the pot, I bend the stem so that only the true leaves and growing tip are above the surface of the filled cup. The stems are flexible but don't get silly. Generally, I fill one side and then push the stem against the filled side and fill the other side. When I've wound the stem around the pot, I make sure I have soil under and supporting the stem before I tamp it down. Also, I try to centre the growing tip in the pot. They can be pushed around if you are gentle.

Search on "dense planting" to see how its done.

I was reading this thread looking for answers about my own plants when I realised we have alot of the same things going on... I am a first time gardener as well, I planted seeds in the Jiffy strips about 6 weeks ago and also used the Jiffy starting mix.

I was just reading threads on here to see if everything is OK with my plants.... Basically about 2-3 weeks ago I started getting true leaves on them, then they appeared to stop growing, they have stayed the same size. Still not sure if that's normal? Did yours do that?

Also I noticed above you were unable to find what the Jiffy mix contains, my bag actually does list the contents.

Sphagnum peat moss, vermiculite, lime and wetting agent... hope that helps!

Mikey - mine did the same thing, just seemed to stall out at about 3 week stage (got a little leggy but no more leaves). I planted deeper in bigger pots from the seed-starting trays, used a mix of Fafard #2 (which has "starter nutrients") and the Jiffy starter in some, some left-over Pro-Mix Veggie and Herb and Burpee starter (which has some turkey litter) in others, and they have grown considerably, gotten 1-2 more pairs of leaves, just in the past week.

Just pot them up in something with a light fertilizer (or use dilute fertilizer to water - I used 1.5 tsp instead of 1 oz Neptune's Harvest to 1 gal of water) and they will start up again.

I watered today for the first time since transplanting (yes, original wetting lasted more than a week w/o wilting), used dilute fish emulsion so I am just waiting for them to take off this next week while waiting for hardening-off weather!

Sounds good, I just potted up to bigger ones on monday this week using the jiffy mix. I didnt quite bury to the stems as deep as I should have I guess, hoping it still works out... I'll look into getting them some fertilizer as well then also. I think i'll also water from the bottom now to try and promote root growth.

Hahaha! How surprised I was to see my topic up towards the top of this forum again tonight when I was just casually stopping by!

Bets,
I remembered about two weeks back hearing about that way of watering before. I had thought I'd need a self watering seed starting tray to be able to do that properly, but then realized not really. I did do it by just running the tap water into an open area so it made about an inch or so of water at the bottom. They sucked it up in about five minutes, but there's a reason I haven't done it since. I had remembered the person had said to let it sop up water for about 30 minutes then drain off the excess. Well, after about five minutes, the soil was soggy wet! I got super nervous about there being too much water then, and drained off the excess. It was nice, as it took about four days to finally dry out, but it wasn't long after than a problem or two reared their ugly lil' heads. I forgot about that. So, between worry about TOO wet of soil(fears of drowning the tomatoes and damping off), and the new problems I was thinking might have been linked to the excess amount of water in the soil, I haven't done it again. But maybe I should put a set amount in for them to absorb? That's what I'm kinda getting from your comment about the quart of water...

ljpother,
I would pot them up, even bought the next sized peat pots(though after reading this forum maybe I should get plastic ones), but there's an issue. They're totally growing their roots through the peat pots. I don't think it'd be good to give them two layers of peat pot to work on growing through. Or does it matter? I'd read on here from a few people about just rip them off, if it takes some roots, it don't matter. But I don't know if that's TRULY alright and won't kill the plant, and also with how many of the roots are growing through, that it wouldn't just kill the plant because it has more roots maybe growing through than those said people had. Any thoughts on this?

MikeyIrish,
That's so neat someone has a similar situation as mine! Any ideas as to when ya'll are gonna plant out this year? Oh, but then again, I'd assume you might be one zone colder than I at zone 6, am I right? But I suppose I'd better get back on topic. lol ;)
That's good your bag at least listed what's in there. You'd think all the bags of soil would need to. So thanks for telling me! As for stopping growing...no...they have slowed DOWN some, but are still growing. And I'd assume they're slowing down because they're done their initial "start of life" growing spurt. There's no coined term for that, but I'd guess every plant has one. haha ^_^

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention I had started them in the 50-cell Jiffy strips too, ripped those off (even though they took some roots with them) b/c I had planted densely (esp. the cherry toms - those seeds are tiny!) when I planted in bigger plastic cells (36 to a tray) and pots (what 4" pots I had). I also put them under 6500K CFL grow lights which I hadn't had them on before. I don't have enough grow lights to cover all my plants, so tomatoes get them for about 12-14 hours during the day and peppers get them all night (I try to move them about 6AM and then whatever time I think about it at night). All plants get some natural sunlight through a thermopane bay window (E-S-W facing) as well.

I was thinking about planting out mid-May, still may start moving them outside for a little during the day next week when it's in the 70's, but we've got a freeze warning tonight and who knows when the nights are going to get over 50 again so may have to wait til end of May.

HTH

We'll plant out probably around may 24 weekend. Yeah the tomato ones are the only ones worrying me right now... the peppers just started getting true leaves and look good, and the cukes I did too early I guess because they're just starting to look like the yellow flowers are coming out... They are pretty small still though so I think i'll be OK with those... The tomato's are starting to look a bit purple though now to....

and yeah in 4b (Ottawa, Canada) It's still way too cold to even consider planting out for at least 3-4 more weeks.