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Growing Tomatoes

Ok to pinch off cotyledon to pot up?

15 years ago

Hi guys

I am thinking these guys need to get potted up a second time before they go to their permanent home.

Tuesday was the 5 week mark from sowing.

They are currently in 10oz cups, but I think it may be a good idea to move them to some 16oz "keg" type cups.

Any thoughts for or against moving them up to larger cups?

Can I, and should I pinch the cotyledon leaves to allow deeper planting?

I am planning on their final transplant for April 7th

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Comments (12)

catman529
15 years ago
You can pinch the cot leaves but it's not necessary. I'm leaving most of mine on (I only pinch off unhealthy-looking ones).
anney
15 years ago
As catman says, it really doesn't matter, and either way is fine. I'd say it IS time to pot them up again and give them some more room to put on growth! Those are some vigorous looking roots and plants!
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Clipping Cotyledons off seedlings to stimulate new growth
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Spade, You sound like you have a scientific background, so I doubt that you are wrong. Strangepeeps: PEPPERS/TOMATOES: There are anecotal reports from folks indicating that they believe clipping off the cotyledons when repotting tomato plants into a deeper pot stimulates growth. The anecdotal reports also indicate that, if you repot your seedlings from one container to another and if you clip off some of the true leaves at that time AND plant deep, you'll get great root growth and topgrowth as well. The question is, does it work? One method of doing this [deeper repotting combined with pinching off leaves (some, not all leaves)] was described in Jeff Cox's wonderful book "Jeff Cox's 100 Greatest Garden Ideas" and is idea #85 "Plant Deep To Reap a Heap of Tomatoes". I tried it for several years and did get very healthy, very vigorous transplants. However, I couldn't tell that I got either earlier tomatoes or larger harvests overall, so I stopped doing it. Both last year and this year I started seeds in peat pellets, pricked them out and potted them up to styrofoam cups once, and they are about ready to do into the ground. The plants look just as good, though slightly smaller, than when I followed Jeff Cox's plan of potting up three times to successively larger containers. I haven't done it with anything other than tomatoes. FRUIT TREES: Like Spade, I don't think picking blossoms off fruit trees is beneficial. My fruit trees always set way more fruit than they can successfully carry to maturity so I have to thin them out once the flowers have fallen and the fruit are small but visable. If you are removing blossoms before you get fruit set, you may inadvertently remove too many flowers that would set fruit and leave too many that weren't pollinated and didn't set fruit. In general, I'm not crazy about attempting to manipulate plants, especially trees. Just let them grow at a natural rate and don't overfeed or overwater and they will grow and develop and perform as Mother Nature intended. MYCORRHIZAL FUNGI: I am too tired to think and talk about this one tonight, but I think maybe Randy is doing something with it. I'll try to remember it and post it tomorrow if I can find the old thread. Do I think it probably works? Yes. Have I tried it? No. Dawn
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Dave I understand your analogy and your position that plants of the size I mentioned are beyond the stage at which they should be transplanted into their final growing place, and from my experience I don't doubt that plants would perform better in a longer season if they had been initially transplanted as smaller plants; my big transplants are pretty pooped out by the end of the season (if season was longer, I don't think they would last much longer), while their younger siblings tend to look better and fuller and like they would have a longer healthier lifespan than the bigger transplants had (but though healthier and fuller, the have also produced fewer and later fruits, as mentioned). Is there somewhere I could find more information what effects growth/what is the ideal stage at which to set out? I don't know if it makes a difference up here, if proper transplanting and setting out would still result in later, fewer fruits. Regarding transplanting in general, when I changed up a few things last year I seemed to have poorer root development than prior years. Plants still grew pretty large and produced ok given the weather conditions (maybe excess precipitation acutally helped bring more nutrients to the smaller root systems this summer). I was told by some people here last year that root growth could be improved by allowing plants to become somewhat (or more than somewhat) rootbound in smaller pots before potting up...may explain better performance in other years when I procrastinated before potting up. Did some research and came across the below link among other things. Not sure how old or accurate it is, but the article discusses root development, and seems to indicate the possibility that the more times a plant is transplanted, the less fruit it produces, due in part to damaging effects of translanting on the roots. Besides direct sowing, or planting seeds in 6-inch pots (instead of starters then cells then larger pots) I don't see a practical way to plant in a manner that would avoid all transplanting...and probably tough to plant one or a few seeds per 6-inch pot and have enough room/pots to set up for germination. Ignoring the transplant size issue, any comments on what this article says about transplanting and root development (and applicability to a non-commercial garden, if any)? http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010137veg.roots/010137ch26.html
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The purpose of the cotyledons (seed petals) is to nourish the seedling until the first couple of true leaf pairs have fully emerged and are producing carbohydrates via photosynthesis to feed further cell division (growth). When you rip off or bury the cotyledons, you rob the seedling of photosynthesis and nutrients provided by the cotyledons. Now, does that make sense ... to rob your seedlings of their natural method of initial nurishment, photosynthesis and growth? Nope! When potting up little seedlings with just the first true leaves emerging or partially developed, I strongly advise leaving the cotyledons exposed to light so they can do their job. Wait until the cotyledons become yellowed and withered before taking them off the stem or burying the seedling up to the first true leave stems.
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geeboss
15 years ago
catman529

Your plants will thank you once their root are free to continue to run. Just watch them take off and the plant will grow and grow. Looking very very good What are you feeding the seedlings?

George
jel7
15 years ago
Beautiful plants!

I would like to know what starting and potting mix you use.

What are you feeding them?

John
bdobs
Original Author
15 years ago
Ok, I potted them up to some 18oz cups last night.
I pinched off the Cotyledons and planted them up to just below the first set of leaves. They look a lot more comfy in their new larger homes.

George/John
I started all in Peet Pellets.
Moved them to the 10 ox cups with straight Jiffy Mix.
At about three weeks old I watered them with a 1/3rd strength Miracle Grow Tomato solution. I fed them a week later with the same. At 4 weeks I diluted that mixture so it was maybe 1/8th strength and watered them again.
As of last night they are in Miracle grow potting mix and I wont be giving them any more food till they go in my Earthtainers where they will be Espoma Tomato tone.
I have only used captured rain water.
jel7
15 years ago
bdobs,

What type grow light do you use?

Thanks for the above information.

John
bdobs
Original Author
15 years ago
Just two cheapo HD shop light.
One Daylight bulb and one cool white bulb in each
gardener_sandy
15 years ago
Beautiful plants! They are exactly what I picture when I use the "stocky, healthy plants" line in my classes. Mine never get that big in the starter pots since they're outside in a "slightly" heated mini greenhouse. I might have to think about putting together a light setup for next spring if I can get DH to agree to let me use some of his office space. It's the only room I can put them in that my cat won't eat them!

Sandy
jel7
15 years ago
bdobs,

Please be spacific as to the amount of MG tomato solution.

They call for 1 T per gallon for water-can (I guess outside use).

One teaspoon is sometimes called suggested for inside use.

What measurement do use per gallon to achieve your 1/3rd strength?

John
bdobs
Original Author
15 years ago
I used 1 teaspoon in a one gallon milk jug filled with rain water.
Three t to one T I believe

At last I think it was a teaspoon. The little scoop end :)

I used one turkey baster full per plant for watering
jel7
15 years ago
Thanks!

Hoping I can grow decent looking looking plants.

John
bdobs
Original Author
15 years ago
Its easy John, my first year growing from seed. I asked a few questions here and dove in.
A couple things I kept in mind from advise here, or learned through this experience

Cheap light are fine, but keep them close.

Cool, even cold temperature seems to benefit the plants.
Early in their life, these guys saw no higher than 65 and down to the 40's.

Resist the temptation to over love them by watering or feeding too frequently. I would just wait until my cups were really light, the I would water them.

I would brush my hands over them a couple times a day when I checked on them. I wanted to get a small fan, but in February I simply couldnt find one. At this point I figure its uselss as I am going to start hardening them off in the next week or so.

Everyone says water from the bottom which I did when they were in the Peet Pellets on the trays, but once I potted up to the 10oz cups, I watered them from the top with a Turkey Baster.

Have fun and good luck

Brian

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