outdoor cats...speaking of unmonitored animals

16 years ago

There is a controversy about indoor/outdoor cats. I believe cats should only be in the house or cat fenced. I believe cats are domesticated and need the same protection as dogs. That's my personal opinion. A situation I encounterd recently is one of my reasons why. I'm just putting this out there and not trying to judge anyone.

I own a cat that was an "outdoor" cat in the neighborhood of one of my clients. She is a sweet Mainecoon cat. She uses her box except the occasional detour in the bathtub. I can personally live with that because it's easy to disinfect. We trim the nails so she can't wreck the furniture.

Here's the story of how I ended up with this cat. Kitty is extraordinarily cat aggressive. This "outside"kitty was literally tearing off my client's window screens to get at her indoor kitties.This kitty LOVES flowerbeds,grass and container gardens for doing her "bussiness".She really gets into digging around. This kitty was tearing up my clients flowerbed,spotting the grass(she'd go there too like a dog!) and destroying potted plants completely. I mean my client's potted plants were dying. Replacing window screens is a pricey PITA,my client's cats were becoming stressed by the "crazy cat" trying to get at them, and my client couldn't open the windows for a breeze on a cool day! It was maddness. I'll bet the owners of this lovely cat had NO CLUE what was happening with their cat.

My client's DH set down the law. The cat gets trapped and sent off to the shelter. If the cat comes back and continues wrecking the house it's getting euthanized. So I took the cat and she is now in my house doing fine. She never encounters other cats(she is an only cat here),she's not in danger from angry neighbors, and she's no longer at risk for dog attacks or cars hitting her. Just a thought.PJ

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (14)

stephanieftx
16 years ago
Many cats do best in a one cat only situation where they don't feel like they have to fight or defend their territory. Bless you for taking in that poor animal. Seems like she's blossoming in your home.

Stephanie
carrie751
16 years ago
Yes, PJ, bless you. My situation is a little different, and I am not trying to defend it, but I have so many strays dropped off here in the country that I would never be able to bring them all inside. I do the best I can for them - neutering, shots,etc. - but then they do have to live outside. I have heated igloos for them in the winter, and they are quite comfortable, but inside is just out of the question for me.
Related Discussions
A harvest
Q
Comments (12)
Congratulations on some outstanding discussion fellas! Wow! There is little I can add, really, but might be able to clarify some points that seem to be leaving you with questions. One is the idea that castings are or might be toxic to worms. While it would seem logical that a worm, as with essentially all other animals, could not be healthy living in its own waste, research shows that this is not necessarily the case. If I recall correctly, Mary Appelhoff even says this in the first edition of Worms Eat My Garbage. She and I later learned, however, that, as Abbeysdad indicated, earthworms actually re-ingest their own casts over and over, even in the presence of a rich food source, a fact which negates the myth that castings are toxic to earthworms. In fact, some/many systems are enhanced by the presence of dense volumes of castings. Further, there is no evidence that continual re-ingestion causes the castings to eventually become toxic or lose their value to either the system or the worms that re-ingest them. On this same note, there is no evidence that as castings are re-ingested they become "richer" or more valuable to plants, nor is their evidence that they become more stable or "finished". As it is believed that it is the microorganisms that are being gleaned from ingested castings, and as the earthworm gut largely lacks the chemistry that would further reduce the ingested castings, it appears that the ingested casts are merely carriers for microbial life and, themselves, remain largely unchanged by continual re-ingestion. When castings comprise the bulk of the material in a system, problems can arise, however, but not as a result of toxicity, rather, because the physical characteristics of masses of castings alone are not necessarily optimal for maintaining worms, as Abbeysdad also suggests. They are very dense and hold water with exceptional efficiency. As a result, castings-only systems often become saturated and allow for little oxygen penetration, leading to oxygen-starved worms and/or anaerobic conditions. Worm bin managers who experience these conditions and the corresponding loss of worm biomass often state that the castings killed the worms, which has led to the oft repeated but technically incorrect idea that castings are toxic. Again, it is not an issue of toxicity, but of physical characteristics potentially challenging to the maintenance of optimal bin conditions. I have seen vermicomposting systems that had not been harvested for five or six years, and to which only feedstock was added supporting massive worm populations in some cases, and with weak, inefficient populations in others. I suspect that the variable is most often in the feedstock and how it interacts with the castings. Some feedstocks (like veggie wastes) carry huge volumes of water, thus using them alone with castings often leads to saturation, while other feedstocks (like some racetrack manures) are very dry, thus the system is enhanced by high levels of castings that hold as much moisture as possible. Some feedstocks are highly unstable, meaning they break down very quickly, thus the amplified biology associated with castings-rich systems may not be pivotal to optimal system efficiency, while others (rice hulls or coffee chaff) are biologically resistant and tend to decompose more quickly with the aid of the amplified microbiology associated with castings-rich system. All of this seems to suggest that whether or not one should harvest the castings regularly depends on the materials being used in the system. As you can see, misunderstanding can often result when someone hoping to set up a coffee chaff vermicomposting system is asking questions of someone with a great deal of experience vermiprocessing veggie waste only. While the answers given may be technically correct, they are often incorrect for the person to whom they are being given. As to when the material in a compost bin or worm bin is actually finished, meaning stable; the answer depends on who is asking the question. If the questioner is we who simply operate our home waste management systems for the purpose of reducing landfilled material while making good stuff for the garden, then materials from these systems can be considered finished as soon as they are no longer recognizable as the parent materials, or distinguishable from soil. If the questioner is a horticulturist looking for potting media with particular bulk density or given chemical characteristics, then the material is likely unfinished until it has cured for several weeks or months. If the questioner is a soil scientist trying to determine when the material actually begins to humify, or when it is fully stable and no longer breaking down in any measurable sense, then it will not be truly "finished" for many years. Strange, I know, to think that determining when compost or worm castings are "finished" could have such difference, but, well, it does. One problem with the internet is that those answering the questions we ask are not always cognizant of these potential differences in perspective. While answers are often correct, they may not adequately address the needs of those asking the questions, thus myths are born, misinformation becomes a problem and Chuckie's head becomes threatened with implosion (I hate it when that happens). I have to say that you two, Abbeysdad and Chuckie, and you, Susan, impress me tremendously with how well you understand the complexities of communicating the technical aspects of vermicomposting systems. You seem to grasp better than most that "technically correct" and "correct within context" are not always the same thing, and ask questions to clarify context before answering. It is people like you who are helping to enhance understanding of the differences between systems and how the experiences of each of us can best be used to help improve education as opposed to increasing confusion, and for that I am profoundly grateful. Great discussion, folks! KellyS
...See More
Sub-Q's: A Desperate Move?
Q
Comments (8)
Loss of kidney function is unfortunately often a part of growing old. I enjoy caring for my geriatric pets and making their golden years comfortable and enjoyable for them. Giving subQ fluids adds substantially to their quality of life, so I consider it a part of routine care for my older pets, not a desperate measure at all. My cats, all but one, have lived comfortably into their 20s, in large part due to hydration therapy. Many will disagree with me, but I seldom have blood drawn from my geriatric pets, at least not on a routine basis. I base the frequency of subQs on the recommendation of my vets and my and their observations of the animal's condition. Signs of dehydration, lethargy, nausea, loss of appetite mean the animal needs fluids more frequently. Typically I start out giving fluids once a week, and by the time they are out of their teens, we are usually up to every day or every other day. If your kitty is eating well and enjoying outdoor excursions, it sounds like he is doing well and enjoying his life. Cats behave differently in their later years, as do we. But retirement years have their own special rewards. I'm in my 60s and retired, and despite arthritis and other ills, I'm not ready to pack it in yet! Being able to give my old animals a retirement filled with love and creature comforts is, and has been, one of the most fulfilling of all my life's accomplishments. I find it calming to administer fluids to my old pets. This post was edited by spedigrees on Thu, Oct 10, 13 at 11:45
...See More
Cat Crying
Q
Comments (30)
I have a similar, but unique situation....My girlfriend volunteers at a shelter. She got me to go with her one day, and I convinced her to take home a beautiful 2 year old female named Morticia that I took a liking to. (she already had 2 cats) All the cats seemingly got along fine. Several months later, we rescued a feral cat from the brink of death who lived in the woods outside her house. Her lease only allows for 2 cats.....4 would be pushing it, so I took Morticia back to my house. The first week was great, but then she started yowling thru the night. Not every night....she'll do 3 or 4 nights in a row, then rest her voice a night or two. I have a dog and a cat about the same age as her, and they all get along great. Complicating this is the fact that you CANNOT pick this cat up. She's beautiful, loves attention, and beams at you when you pet her.....but pick her up and she flies into an immediate frenzy. The second she hits the ground it's forgotten and she's back to beaming at you. How can I fix this?? I need to sleep!!! On a side note, while my girlfriend had Morticia, her male cat took to licking the fur off of his belly and legs. The vets thought it was a nervous condition. Her other cat peed on area rugs in the kitchen and livingroom. Since Morticia left, both problems are gone.....Sorry for such a long post!!
...See More
Kids and the media - carried over from another post
Q
Comments (14)
I personally hate TV--it makes me antsy, antsy, antsy. I can't stand to have it on unless I'm actually WATCHING it, and there are very few shows I can stand enough to waste my time on them (Smallville rules!!! anything w/ Superman) I don't like my kids to watch TV because i don't like the content, I can't control it because I can't see what it is before it happens. I also think a lot of cartoons are over their heads. And I hate commercials. The day my daughter came home from Grandma's, where she watches her 2 hours or less per week (though I swear I think it's more) and said, "Mom, do you know the hair you want can be the hair you have?" I almost called grandma right then and there to announce they wouldn't be coming over anymore. My societal objections to TV come from 2 places: a Nero Wolfe novel, and a study done in Canada on social interactions and how they changed w/ the advent of TV. In the Canadian study, they measured the amount of time spent in conversation, the ages of those conversing or interacting, and the topic of their interaction. There was a town that only in 1970 or so was able to get broadcast TV, so it was a great place to study. They found that cross-generational conversation plummeted, and that those conversations specifically (but all conversations) became more logistical, superficial, and less ideas-driven or emotional. Shallower, and about the stuff you HAVE to talk about, like pass the salt and what time are you getting out from work. In the Nero Wolfe novel, Archie Goodwin goes to some people's house to pick up clues and impressions, and they all file into a semidarkened room to watch TV and nobody talks to one another. He comments to us that the advent of TV has ruined investigations, because nobody talks anymore, and when they do they talk about TV shows instead of something interesting. When my kids watch a video (the only thing they're allowed to watch at home), they don't talk to each other (except to fight about who's bonking their feet against whom) or to anyone else. And I'm w/ you all the way, Stephanie, on the idea that we have to choose. (I love that "are you new here?") I also like Anita9's point that "those wonderful old shows" weren't necessarily so wonderful. And I think that kids approach TV differently. They've got a lot more competing for their time and attention--computer games, etc. We don't really remember that time period well--WE WERE KIDS!!! And we have romanticized anything we do remember (which is perfect normal). Also, I remember reading that w/ Game Boys they found that after the first year of kids being mesmerized, they actually didn't like to play w/ them very much anymore--they're become sated. I think that happens w/ people who watch a lot of TV. I, for example, grew up WITHOUT a TV. We didn't have one in the house until I was 17, and our rural town got cable TV as an experiment, so my dad got us a tiny B&W (I thought the Incredible Hulk was gray, and said so at school, LOL!). So I am mesmerized when it's on around me. I get sucked in, even if I don't want to be. I think a huge part of that is that I'm just not used to it. Other people I know can have it on as background noise and never even notice it; they all grew up with a TV going a lot. They feel lost when it's off and t e noise isn't there. I also read that the advent of the auto and of the TV correspond w/ the advent of obesity as a problem for children. Here's another great truth: " It is only when you have NO rules and NO LIMITS that you run into serious problems. "
...See More
scuba-gal
16 years ago
I can see it from both perspectives. Living in the city - I would never choose to have an outdoor cat as a pet. I did feed a stay outdoors for about a year until recently..but I didn't pick that pet, it picked me. If I lived in the country - I'm sure I'd have an outdoor cat or 2...but to me it just the difference in areas. I wouldn't be infringing on neightbors - like it would here in the city.
Just my thoughts...
Angie
denisew
16 years ago
Sounds like my mother's cat. She is absolutely the nastiest cat when I'm around and I love cats. She hates me. I can't even pick her up because of her hissing and attempts to bite me. We found out she prefers men and she can only be the only cat in their house. She loves my mom's husband. Aside for her nastiness . . . They had a neighbor's cat who was hanging around outside their windows. My mom's cat, Molly, would get angry and she would hit the windows so hard that she set off the house alarm. Once that cat was at their front door when they opened it and Molly went to attack it and my mom's husband stuck his foot in the way to stop her and she bit his toe - got infected and he had to go to the doctor. It is nuts why people can't keep their cats indoors. They are a domestic pet - not part of our native wildlife.

On the other hand, for someone who has a barn and has mice, then having a few cats to keep the mice under control is another story. And, in situations like Carrie has with people dropping off cats in the country - shame on those who drop them off and bless those who do the best they can to care for those poor cats. Carrie - It sounds like you're doing such a good job taking care of all those strays. For people who live in the city, they should keep their cats indoors - no ifs, ands or buts.
kateyes
16 years ago
I totally agree with PJ...and Carrie. It depends on where you live.

I have fits everyday (my DH heads inside when he hears me say the word "cat") because the neighborhood cats poop and dig and lie around in my flower beds, killing and flattening my plants. I always wear gloves for this specific reason - eeeww!! Also, they kill my lizards, toads and birds. I get sooooo mad!! And then there's the occasional cat that gets creamed by a car (no matter how mad I get at them, I can't stand that to happen!!). I think that's irresponsible and cruel on the owner's part.

Actually, it's the owners I get angry with. I think it's inconsiderate to allow your animal to run loose in a close neighborhood. I have threatened to take my dogs (I have two very large Rotties) walking around to every neighbor with a cat running loose, and let them poop in their gardens a few times......my DH doesn't like this idea. :-)

It's just so frustrating to work so hard, spend your hard-earned money, and have someone "invade your space" and destroy that time, effort and money.

I've had cats too. They stayed inside (no de-clawing!!) and were very healthy happy animals. I did have them spayed/neutered which probably helped with the "urge to roam". And they were best buds with the dogs. My vet (he's awesome!) has always told me that indoor pets (especially cats) live longer lives.

Anyhoo...this is one of my biggest pet peeves - no pun intended!! :-)

Kat
pjtexgirl
Original Author
16 years ago
I agree with Carrie too. Feral cat colonies are a whole other ball of wax! You can't bring em in.They have no house manners. You can't get rid of them even with trapping.They'll be replaced by more strays if you're in a dumping spot.I agree Carrie is doing a great thing with the strays!
denisew, I can't imagine keeping such a psycho cat when there are so many cats that are nice that need good homes! There is something wrong with that animal yikes!!! PJ
justintx
16 years ago
pj,
You're very kind.
(I'm still not allowed to say C**, am I?)
; - )
J.D.
carrie751
16 years ago
JD, I thought you would stay out of this one ----LOL. No, I think you are NOT allowed !!!!!
little_dani
16 years ago
I have 2 cats, a spayed female, 18 years old, and a neutered male 4 years old. They are indoor/outdoor cats. My fault, I just cannot stand a litter box in my house.

We have a hotwire around the yard, and they do respect it. Believe it or not, they do stay in our yard. Otherwise, they would not be able to go outside.

We put the hotwire up to keep dogs out of our yard, and away from our cats. It was a bonus that it would keep the cats in the yard.

They are both hunters, but the old girl is getting so old she would just rather I bring dinner to her. The male has never had to depend on catching his own supper, so he isn't compulsive about it now.

I just don't understand the deal with some people and animals. When we take an animal, it becomes part of our family. Our dogs and cats live a long time. Our old puppies are 14 now, and we lost a boxer at the ripe old age of 16. It is a committment, we know it when we take them.

I would not have it any other way. I wonder if people who are so casual about animals know what they are missing?

Janie
justintx
16 years ago
Carrie - yes ma'am.
; - (
pjtexgirl
Original Author
16 years ago
Carrie be nice now!
I have so many animals that are now getting old too. I have 3 lizards,a bird and a dog that are over or getting close to 10 yrs old. The youngest animals I have are the chickens. They're a year and a half. Everything else is at least 5. PJ
PKponder TX Z7B
16 years ago
PJ,
What kind of lizard do you have? I know you told me before, but I have just forgotten. We lost our 14 year old tokay just before the move to Granbury. We are thinking about getting an iguana for our children to raise ;-)

Pam
carrie751
16 years ago
I am always nice, PJ - just trying to save JD some heartache - you know !!!!
pjtexgirl
Original Author
16 years ago
Likely story Ms. Carry! LOL!
I have a gieco gecko(well...a really,really close cousin)Instead of a Giant Day Gecko(gieco) It's a Standing's Giant Day Gecko both are from Matagascar,Africa.
I have two common lizards as well. A Bearded Dragon and a Leopard Gecko. I've owned Tokays and Iguanas as well. IMHO, Iguanas are dangerous. I have a 15 stitch scar from an Iguana the only animal quick enough,impossible to read enough and strong enough to have EVER given me stitches. I worked with a lot of animals that are quick and strong but as unpredictable as animals can be,nothing touches the speed of a reptile.

outdoor cats...speaking of unmonitored animals

Comments (14)

stephanieftx

carrie751

Related Discussions

scuba-gal

denisew

kateyes

pjtexgirl
Original Author

justintx

carrie751

little_dani

justintx

pjtexgirl
Original Author

PKponder TX Z7B

carrie751

pjtexgirl
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

outdoor cats...speaking of unmonitored animals

Comments (14)

Related Discussions

pjtexgirlOriginal Author

pjtexgirlOriginal Author

pjtexgirlOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

pjtexgirl
Original Author

pjtexgirl
Original Author

pjtexgirl
Original Author