I'm sorry to hear that. I tried growing bb tomatoes last yr, w/ little luck. I've given up trying to grow them. It could be that the tomatoes were already diseaded w/ that when you brought them home from the greenhouse, nursery or wherever you bought them from. I won't buy veg plants from the box stores like HomeDepot, etc., as I think they don't care for the plants too well at those kind of stores. We have had a lot of rain storms here in PA, also this spring, right up thru June. I am kind of wondering how well a tom plant will do that I bought, also. My cherry toms are doing great in their little container, also are my patio toms in a container. You never know from yr to yr! Good luck w/ the new ones. I'd be interested in hearing how they do. I might put one more large tom plant in my veg garden if I see something this week.

Here is a portion of the earlier discussion. D. ------- Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by Pandorae (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 20:29 Very interesting obituary in the New York Times today: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/11/national/11shifriss.html His "one big, huge bonanza"... "for gardening, was as innovative as the V-8 engine or the microchip." You probably will have to register to see the article but it is free and I think a worthwhile read. Note to Earl: Be sure to read to the very end. Pandorae Here is a link that might be useful: Oved Shfriss, plant breeder and geneticist, dies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow-Up Postings: RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: Earl SW Ohio 5-6 (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 21:25 Pandorae, Its not an easy trip to get to where you want me to go. Recently, the new york times is not a very accurate newspaper, any reason this story is to be believed to be true, or should we just hope itÂs true? The BIG media in this country has an agenda, as in kick in GWÂs teeth. Sorry, but the mention of that rag riles me up. Hopefully, soon, it will go the way of the Ned Buntline dime novel. Sorry, but it just came out. :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: Pandorae (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 21:37 Earl, Sorry. Didn't mean to upset you or anyone else. I put the "Note to Earl" in because of the great plug for Black Krim at the end. On second thought you do not want to register to see this article :)) Not trying to drum up business for the website. Honest. Pandorae -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forgiveness? Posted by: Earl SW Ohio 5-6 (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 21:53 Pandorae No problem. Sorry I got emotional there. I try to stick to tomatoes, but the route to the story kinda sent me off. :-) I apoligize for my un-forum like behavior. Please forgive me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: greggf z4 NY (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 22:57 Oh boy oh boy oh boy, is this article going to cause excitement around here! I got to it via Google by searching on Oved's name. The article from the Times is already posted elsewhere, in the clear, without need to register anywhere. In the article, George Ball of Burpee says that non-hybrid tomatoes are very very hard to grow. That's controversy Number One. Number two is, George Ball hints that one or even both parents of Big Boy hybrid, the tomato that Oved is famous for, are UKRAINIAN in source. Carolyn has said here that Oved told her that Big Boy is a cross between the midwestern U.S. heirloom Teddy Jones and another tomato. Is that other tomato Ukrainian? Did Teddy originally come from the Ukraine? Is George pulling our tails? Is Earl's New York Times writing yet more fiction? Is George suggesting that Black Krim is one of the parents? Has he inadvertently told us that Big Boy = Black Krim + Teddy Jones? And, if so, how on earth would a Black Krim/Teddy Jones cross produce Big Boy? And does it even matter, since we have no access to Teddy Jones? What other purplish Ukrainian tomatoes are there that George could be talking about? And, mainly, how do we like what he says about heirlooms and heirloom growing? Is it really all that much easier for the uninitiated to grow Big Boy than it is Large Pink Bulgarian? =gregg= -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: PNW_D 8BC (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 22:58 For those that don't know (from www.damseeds.com) "A new development in the history of the tomato occurred in 1949 when W. Atlee Burpee introduced the first F1 Hybrid tomato, 'Big Boy.' Bred by Dr. Oved Shifriss 'Big Boy' offered gardeners earliness in a large, smooth red tomato. It was an instant success for both Dr. Shifriss and W. Atlee Burpee." D. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: greggf z4 NY (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 23:08 I should mention that George Ball mentions Black Krim in the same breath as Big Boy. What a fun mystery. =gregg= -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: Carolyn137 z4/5 NY (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 23:28 I'm sorry that I forgot to post Oved's passing here last Sunday b/c I'd received an e-mail about it from a friend. There is absolutely no ambiguity in what the parents of Big Boy were. Oved bred it and he told me what the two parents were, as you know. it was Goerge Ball who told me that John Peto took Teddy Jones with him when he left Burpee and used it as one parent when he bred Better Boy. George Ball is extremely anti-OP and even more an ti-heirloom. There's lots I could tell you about him, but what's the sense. Yes, we've talked, I have todays NYTimes and will read what was said. Oved was a brilliant vegetable breeder. But I have to admit he was short tempered and cantankerous. I had man y long talks with him, especially when he spent the summer with Glenn Drowns in IA and Oved was quite alone most of the time. He knew me previous to that trip out there so called me almost every other night. I hope the article also talked about his squash contributions. he isolated the yellow precocious gene from a gourd and that was incorporated into all the yellow summer squash b/c it masks CMV greening. he bred several other important veggies as well. I also was one of several folks who tried to get hmn to donate his germsplasm to the USDA and/or a University. I tried to help Dr. Molly Jahn at Cornell with her efforts, to no avail, But I've said too much already. Here's the e-mail notice I received last Sunday, just two days after he passed on: Well, it looks like I let it scroll off but forgot to save it. He died in Bloomington, Indiana of sepsis a week ago Friday and the details of the funeral service in NJ were discussed. I was asked to pass on the info to one branch of folks at Rutgers where Oved spent a long tenure. He had moved out to Bloomington only three months previously b/c he could no longer stay alone in his home in NJ and wouldn't let anyone help him. His one son lives in Bloomington. Oved went downhill rapidly after his wife died a few years ago. And I will read the article and comment when I can. Carolyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder //and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: Carolyn137 z4/5 NY (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 23:55 I forgot to say that Teddy Jones is not a Ukrainaian variety for my whole search to track it down started with an older SSE member who contacted me who lived on the farm next to where the folks who had Teddy jones lived, and knew them and knew the variety. And the other parent is absolutly NOT a Ukrainian variety, you'll just have to trust me on that. Just b/c Oved has now passed on doesn't give me the license to say in public what he told me in private and asked me to never divulge what that other parent is. As far as I know Ball knew about Teddy Jones and I assume he knew the other parent as well, for Big Boy. Actually he 's the one who told me that John Peto took it with him when he left Burpee. So you know darn well who produces F1 seed for Better Boy, and that's Petoseed. No doubt they do Big Boy as well. Oved also left Burpee early in his career. I think it might have been in the late 40's. to early 50's. Carolyn -

My mother grew Big Boy in her open ground garden in zone 4 for decades as her main variety. She never pruned them either or staked em, but she did fertilize the transplant water with MiracleGro and fertilized about half strength when she watered after that. I do not remember her ever having a crop failure with this variety. This was a farm garden and got a good spreader full of raw fertilizer plowed down in the fall. And then was retilled in the spring. It was also a clay based Iowa black dirt that had been garden for decades before I came along too; so it had to be handled carefully especially when wet, but we got very little BER. Try augmenting the soil with dolomite or epsom salts and if you use Peat Moss try switching to Coir for better pH which will help with the calcium and magnesium uptake problems that lead to BER. I have been very impressed with Burpee's Fourth of July for an early snack tomato and Parks Better Bush ISI (I never saw one plant set so many slicer sized tomatoes - the squirrels around here got em all, too; so I didn't even get a taste test). For heirlooms try Delicious. IMO the Brandywines are over-rated and under productive on top of it. Recipes for cooking squirrel would also be appreciated ... (only about half kidding) IIRC Burpee started the whole "Boy" line of hybrid beefsteak tomatoes in the first place, I see nothing wrong with them continuing to develop it. Or anybody else either for that matter.

I don't think a Florida Weave will work on container plants, do you? I've looked at all the photos in the link that you provided and all those plants appear to be grown in the ground. I've learned my lesson regarding a single stake, not sure what I was thinking, actually; I believe that I didn't think my plants would end up making it as far as they have. I usually don't have very good luck with tomatoes grown in containers. The fact that they appear to be growing so well and look healthy is a total surprise to me, especially due to one of the containers have two (Big Beef) plants in it. If there is a way to use a Florida weave for a container plant, will you let me know, I would really appreciate it. These containers are getting very heavy and I'd hate to loose the plants now. Thanks for your reply. Linda