1) WOW martie, no fair!! looks like you're in the PNW with that grass height!! 2) deanne, I can't believe you had success with that method- it seems so harsh, washing the soil off and repotting! but i'm agonna try it, without the dividing, and under lights. 3) i'm gonna try martie's sunlight method too. i spend easily $100 on these ev. yr and place them throughout the gardens, so overwintering success would be invaluable! 4)lisasha- when you bring in your cannas, just put the whole clump, or pieces, in a bin or milkcrate and stick in the basement in the dark like dahlias. this is my new method, after i bothered with peat moss bins for yrs and warren leach explained this no-fuss way, which worked great for me last yr. best, mindy

Annie, I think we are only the tiniest bit hotter, but y'all are probably usually more humid. (On some days, I'd think the higher humidity would feel great, but on other days it would push the heat index into the stratosphere!) We have limited protection from south and north winds, but not so much from the west, and none from the east. Our clay holds too much moisture when it rains and not enough any other time, but it is great when well amended. We have one narrow band of sandy soil between the house and garden and that is where the guinea coop and chicken coop are, there under the shade of the big pecan tree. I have cannas and 4 o'clocks and rough-leaf dogwood under that pecan to help shelter the poultry from the predatory birds that like to eat them. Unfortunately, the soil amending has to be ongoing....year around, year in, year out. I am "only" 49, but wonder how many years I'll be able to garden at the current pace. Already, the heat bothers me so much more than it did 5 or 10 years ago. The garden gets a little shadier as the trees on three sides of it get larger, but I have to worry about their roots encroaching too. Our soil leans towards being neutral, around 6.8 to 7.2, as long as I keep it well-amended. I had alkaline soil (around 8.0) in Texas, and it was a struggle to lower it any at all. Unfortunately, our place here was once a farm where cotton was one of the crops raised, and there is cotton root rot in the soil. That gave me a lot of trouble in the early days, and there really is no "cure" for it, but I find that the more I amend and improve the soil, the less trouble I have with cotton root rot. Unfortunately, two or three thousand plants are susceptible to it, so I have to watch what I plant. I don't garden on most the land we have because the clay is like red concrete. Only about a acre or acre-and-a-half of it is tamed, about 3 acres are pastures where the wildflowers and grasses nurture the wildlife, and a little over 10 acres is forested and full of deer, bobcats, foxes, ringtailed cats, ferrets, snakes, snakes, snakes, and tons of other stuff, including possums, armadillos and skunks. We do mow 10' wide paths through the pastures so we can walk through there without stepping on copperheads (been there, done that, didn't care for the experience, but didn't get bitten either). I love, love, love living and gardening here, but I miss the longer growing season we had in Fort Worth, where the last spring freeze was often in mid to late-February and the first one often didn't hit until mid- to late-November. Still, I do like Oklahoma better even if it took me 39 years to get here! I envy the rainfall y'all get up there....in a GREAT year here, we'll have 30 to 34" inches and we'll be astounded that we got so much! I can't imagine routinely getting 35" or 40" or more. I'd sure like to try it for a year or two though! Most years since we've been here, it's been more like 26" or 28" or maybe 30" of rain, but one year it was 21" and another it was 24". In a year like that, it gets to where all you can do is water enough to keep the foundation from cracking. So, in a "good year" we STILL have drought here, and in a bad year it is unspeakably bad. I guess it is probably pretty much the same all over Oklahoma....is there ever really enough rainfall in June, July or August (well, maybe at Scott's! LOL). Our 17 keats have survived their first month and we've only had to kill two black snakes that were after them, although our predator-snake problem is usually the worst in July and August. DH keeps wanting to let the keats out of the brooder cages, but the last two times we did that when they were this old, something got them all, so they are staying in the brooder a while longer. I think the guinea coops is about 95% snake proof, but I am not convinced it is 100% snake proof. Our bunnies are disappearing, but I haven't heard the coyotes howling at night yet, so think they are still denned up with their young. A neighbor says a friend of his is seeing a cougar occasionally, but I haven't seen any signs of one near us for a couple of years, I think. Maybe it is the bobcats getting the rabbits. It has been such a great rabbit year, but I know it doesn't last long. The turtle eggs laid in the shrub bed (clay highly amended with compost) have hatched and we have little baby turtles everywhere, and we've had a huge population explosion in the hummingbird gang this year--ruby-throated, black-chinned, and rufous. Life is good! (Hot, but good.) I am very careful about exposure to the heat and sun. I don't wear sunscreen as often as I should (but I'm better than I used to be), but I always wear hats and, more often than not, I wear long-sleeved cotton shirts in the summertime. All the ranchers and farmers here do that to protect their skin, so at least I don't look like an oddball. (Being an organic gardener in a pretty non-organic county makes me enough of an oddball as it is! Not that I care. I wear my oddballness proudly!) Dawn

I was going to go point by point to refute much of what you posted,but decided not to. I hope you know this was the Original Garden Web until bought out by Houzz and I get notices still, but seldom come back here to post unless I see something really wrong being posted as I did with what you posted..Also, your post is the first in this thread since 2011 as I'm sure you already know. Summary: there are some great OP's that are just as productive as any of the F1 hybrids you mentioned, so I still encourage each person to grow varieties that interest them without being warned of what you want to warn folks about. Sincerely, Carolyn,who was the first to SSE list Jaune Flammee, from Norbert in France, along with over 100 other ones Norbert sent,, etc.and Billl Mckay who owned Grow Italian offered everything from Franchi, not just tomatoes,now retired and still growing stuff in FL, and me, who does a seed offer elsewhere with seeds from France,Belgium, Portugal, Germany,Spain,Romania,Slovenia, Bulgaria, Czech Republic,Italy, Turkey, Greece, Lebanon, and of course the US and Canada, and who really likes Prudens Purple as well as she also likes Aunt Ginny's Purple,neither one purple since in the old days purple meant pink, and so many large pink beefs, and who has grown over 4,000 plus tomato varieties. And has always grown primarily for taste, if the yields are high, that's a bonus, and was asked to write a book about Heirloom tomatoes, did that, but has also grown many F1 hybrids as well. And trust me,no one knows the other parent used to construct F1 Brandy Boy since Burpee isn 't talking, they didn't breed it, and so many of the Burpee varieties were produced elsewhere on contract, but they now have some new breeders and are back in PA doing that..

The green shoulder gene used to be not uncommon, even on red tomatoes, but it is no wonder that commercial breeders bred it out, since it sure seems to confuse a lot of people. A healthy tomato will ripen all the way through, all at the same time, no matter whether the shoulders appear green or not. If you wait for green shoulders to disappear, you will never be able to eat them, since the green generally doesn't. Personally, I like green shoulders. It doesn't affect the taste, but to me, it kind of says, "old style, homey, heirloom." Rather than some commercial piece of junk. Also, I know that Cherokee Purple and Cherokee Chocolate are supposed to be exactly the same tomato, with a minimal skin coloration difference, but, to me, they taste quite different. I really DO prefer the Cherokee Chocolate. However,I wonder if the difference might actually be in their level of ripeness when I eat them. Perhaps I am more affected by color than I think and I eat the Cherokee Chocolate either riper or less ripe than the Cherokee Purple. If so, it is a sign that color can even affect me, when I eat so many different colors of tomatoes that I thought it made no difference to me. For people who don't think they like certain tomatoes, I would strongly encourage you to grow your own, and then taste it early in it's ripeness, in the middle, and then again at the end, when it might be approaching too ripe. I think you will find that the flavor, and the complexities of that flavor will change quite markedly. And there are definitely certain types of tomatoes that I prefer when they are just ripe, but absolutely don't like when they are VERY ripe. Or vice versa. I guess I am saying that there really is no ONE standard of ripeness, just like there is no one standard of taste. Ripe is what you say it is, and levels of ripeness definitely will affect how much you like certain tomatoes. So always keep that in mind, and try different stages of ripeness.