Hi ccaggiano - I don't honestly think you can make broad general conclusion on germination rates between heirlooms and hybrids. Too much depends on the variety and seed quality. Assuming good, fresh quality of both and equal conditions, I find little difference between germination rates/speeds, hybrids to heirlooms. But I do find a BIG difference from variety to variety of seeds regardless of whether they are hybrid or heirloom. EX: cherry/grape varieties often germinate faster than do beefsteak types, early varieties will germinate faster than late season varieties, and RL varieties will often germinate faster than PL varieties. So, given the info you provided I wouldn't give up on any of them yet. Hope this helps. ;) Dave

BigCarl, "Specifically the Mortgage Lifter that is the result of cross breeding four different varities. Why will the Mortgage Lifter, a Heirloom, produce the same fruit from seed, when an Early Girl, a Hybrid, will not?" Jan's explanation is accurate. Mortgage Lifter was repeatedly selected for several generations to stabilize it after the initial hybrids of hybrids. It may not be 100% stable today. But you could continue the selection process to develop your own strain of Mortgage Lifter. Early Girl is an F1 hybrid. That's not to say that you couldn't save seed from Early Girl and get some interesting F2 variations, some of which you might like. The interesting thing about growing F2s is that you can see new characteristics that were different from either F1 parent. If you found an F2 that you liked, or several, you could save seed from it (them) and the resulting F3s would still vary a lot, but each group would be somewhat centered around the characteristics of the F2s that you selected. In several generations of such repeated selection you could stabilize one or more of your own varieties from the F1 Early Girl. Then you could go to the next level and cross a couple of those varieties to produce a new F1 hybrid tomato. By continually improving your inbred strains you can also improve the F1 hybrids that you can produce from them. There are a lot of ways you could combine, segregate, and recombine tomato genes. -- Burton --

Good FAQ here on how to prevent cross-pollination. Since tomatoes are primarily self-pollinating the crossing is minimal. So it is only an issue if you insist on 100% seed purity. If you do then you will have to bag some of the trusses on the heirloom to prevent crossing. Since most of us routinely grow a mix of hybrids and heirlooms we don't worry about it and save seeds anyway. That's unless trading seeds. Then purity is more important. Dave Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ - Preventing cross pollination

In today's Wall Street Journal. The paper had several photos - looks like by Victor Schrager from Amy Goldman's book. The link might not work forever, so I pasted the article below. Hope I have the images working right. By ANNE MARIE CHAKER Black varieties: These heirlooms often hail from Russia and are known for their salty or smoky flavor. Victor Schrager/The Heirloom Tomato In the kingdom of vegetables, the heirloom tomato is high nobility. Genetically unchanged from one generation to another, it offers an intense flavor prized by gardeners and gourmets. But it has a reputation for being persnickety in the garden. While modern hybrids are tweaked and improved to resist common diseases, the old stalwarts seem to easily succumb to pathogens that can cause plants to suddenly wilt just as they seem ready to produce. Tasty Tomatoes View Slideshow A selection of cherry heirloom tomatoes. Now, as gardeners prepare to plant this summer's crop, a number of plant breeders are offering hybrids they claim have the distinct flavors and funky looks of heirlooms but are more disease-resistant and abundantly productive. To tomato purists, the hybrids amount to heirloom heresy. "I cringe when I hear the term 'heirloom hybrid,' " says Amy Goldman, board chairwoman of the Decorah, Iowa-based nonprofit Seed Savers Exchange. The group champions the tradition of passing along heirloom seed from one generation to the next. Some of the new varieties are bred to better withstand diseases and microscopic critters that can harm plants. Little worms are why Roger Chetelat can't grow heirlooms. "The soil where I live is infested with nematodes," says the director of the C.M. Rick Tomato Genetics Resource Center at the University of California, Davis. Killer Tomatoes The basics on growing this popular plant * Start seeds indoors four to six weeks before the last expected frost date. * Gradually 'harden' seedings by bringing them outdoors for a few hours a day. * Transplant into the ground in spring once soil has warmed. * Space them a few feet apart and water down into the roots, avoiding leaves. This year, W. Atlee Burpee & Co. in Warminster, Pa., is introducing a variety called Tye-Dye, a red-and-yellow marbled tomato that it promotes as "delivering all the heirloom flavor of Big Rainbow, Pineapple and Georgia Streak, with bigger yields, consistent form and better disease resistance." Park Seed Co. in Greenwood, S.C., promotes a ribbed tomato called Country Taste as having "the meaty, flavorful, tangy bite of yesteryear's tomatoes without the poor disease resistance and small yields that plague so many heirlooms." Territorial Seed Co., based in Cottage Grove, Ore., this year offers Golden San Marzano, a yellow version of San Marzano, which is a classic heirloom plum tomato. Growing Gadgets The key to growing great tomatoes is to keep plants supported and off the ground to avoid rot and encourage better production. Some products that can help. Planted now or in the coming weeks, most tomatoes are ready to be picked at high summerJuly and August in most parts of the country. Eating home-grown tomatoes that have delicately ripened on the vine (and not been battered in shipping) is one of the best eating experiences money can't buy. Just add salt, a little olive oilÂor nothing at all. Breeders say they have been hearing from market growers clamoring for the look and taste of heirlooms but crossed with attributes that make them easier to grow on a larger scale. So in addition to creating more disease-resistant varieties, hybridizers have been working on giving tomatoes a longer shelf life and making shapes more uniform for ease of packing, and creating more compact plants that are easier to maneuver. "There was such a high demand for heirlooms in the grocery store," says Patty Buskirk, owner of Seeds by Design Inc., a wholesale seed supplier in Maxwell, Calif. "The semi-professional gardeners were asking me to come up with a hybrid that has some kind of uniformity and disease resistance." Beating the Blight Researchers at Cornell University have identified some heirloom and hybrid tomato varieties resistant to late blight. See chart These varieties are now becoming available to home gardeners. Ms. Buskirk's first innovation was a hybrid based on the classic Brandywine tomato, known for its pink color and intense, rich flavor. The result was Brandymaster, which entered the marketplace about three years ago, and which she describes as having a Brandywine flavor, but more uniformly shaped fruits and better resistance to diseases. More recently, she created both yellow and red versions. Totally Tomatoes, a catalog affiliated with J.W. Jung Seed Co. in Randolph, Wis., this year is selling Ms. Buskirk's innovations in all three colors. A packet of 30 seeds sells for $1.95. Ms. Buskirk also developed a variety called Patty's Yellow Striped Beefsteak, which is bred to look somewhat like the popular heirloom Big Rainbow, but with more intense flavor, uniform shape, and bigger yields. Cook's Garden, a catalog owned by Burpee, last year began selling itÂa pack of 25 seeds for $3.95 or three plants for $12.50. Some home tomato growers say such new hybrids threaten an important gardening heritage. One advantage to heirlooms is that, unlike hybrids, seed from a plant can counted on to grow looking like the parent. "Heirlooms fill a distinct niche and empower the gardener," Ms. Goldman, author of "The Heirloom Tomato: From Garden to Table," says. "Not only is there a sense of satisfaction from growing at home, but also self sufficiency." Still, she says, there is a place in the world for both hybrids and heirlooms. Robin Eley The old varieties have become increasingly coveted for their weird shapes, funky colors, and rich flavors that span the spectrum from fruity to salty. Some are deeply ribbed, like Purple Calabash. Others have an "oxheart" shape, tapered at the end, like Hungarian Heart. A number of varieties that are almost black in color hail from Russia, like Black from Tula. Others are yellow (Manyel), orange (Flamme) or green (Aunt Ruby's German Green). Stories of their provenance and discovery are part of the appeal. Many of the qualities that make heirloom tomatoes appealing to home gardeners make them more of a challenge for larger-scale growers: Great flavor produced by heirloom plants sometimes comes at the expense of higher yields. Unusual shapes and softer fruit require special handling, which drives up cost. And because heirlooms generally grow on big vines, they need more trellises and supports. Ms. Goldman concedes that while some heirloom varieties can be finicky, that's not necessarily the case for all of the thousands of heirloom varieties that exist today. "There are so many heirlooms that are high to very-high yielding and that perform just as well or better than any hybrid you can imagine," she says. She recommends that home growers try a schedule of different types that tend to produce in succession, to ensure a long harvest. Her suggestions on some particularly hardy varieties: For very early maturity, either Ceylon (a ribbed red variety) or Black Cherry (a maroon cherry tomato). That's followed by either Flamme (a tangerine-colored globe tomato); Yellow Peach (a peach-textured yellow) or Red Rose (a pink globe). Then she recommends Gold Medal (a bicolor beefsteak), followed by Opalka, a blood-red paste tomato, for late season. She also says that many home gardeners don't space tomatoes far enough apart, which can encourage leaf diseases to spread rapidly. She gives her plants five feet of room. Watering should be infrequent, but deepÂat least an inch a week is the rule of thumbÂand aimed directly at the roots, not on the leaves. And most of all, provide tomatoes plenty of direct sunlightÂat least eight hours a day. Write to Anne Marie Chaker at anne-marie.chaker@wsj.com