Why not just get a Sun Gold?

That's actually a very good question, mulio.

My personal goal with cherry tomatoes is to find one sweet/fruity or sweet/spicy variety that are absolutely delicious (by my standards)... not at all tart or tangy. I want to do a mass planting of my favorite variety right where I have irrigation run-off. Hopefully the cherry tomatoes will take-off and reseed themselves the following year.

An open-pollinated (OP) variety will come true from seed, creating the same delicious "volunteer tomatoes" the following year, whereas an F1 hybrid will not.

The "WOW" tomato from Fedco Seeds which is new might be the answer.

Here is a link that might be useful: WOW tomato

If that is the goal I would go with an L pimpinellifolium line.

Some of these lines have been shown in studies to brix higher than Sun Gold. If you get the right one(s) they should outcross and you should get some variation which will help with adaptability.

miesenbacher... I'm ordering the WOW! cherry tomatoes today! Thanks for the link. Fedco's prices and postage are very reasonable.

mulio... are there any "common names" for cherry tomatoes with an L pimpinellifolium line?

GREAT TIPS! THANK YOU!!

I have no idea about the genetic relationship. However, Thompson and Morgan sells an open pollinated yellow cherry
called Sungella which I find excellent.

By the way I like your idea and believe it should work for you.

Thanks for the reply! Is Sungella a tart tomato? I've read it described as tart.

I found an open-pollinated collection of Sun Gold Tomato seeds I might bid on on ebay... someone is selling their extras. I already have WOW! Cherry Tomato and I'm excited to try it!!

I'm glad this came up today b'c I have some new information about the OP sungolds.

In the past I and others have referred to the following as Sungold OP's developed and released by Reinhard Kraft in Germany:

Sungold Select
Sungold Select II
Big Sungold
Big Sungold Select, which I've offered the past two years in a seed offer elsewhere.

What I didn't know until last week is that Reinhard only did the first two himself. The last two were seeds sent to Manfred Hahm who sells seeds off Reinhard's website and Reinhard grew two of the selections and named those last two.

But in his e-mail to me this past week when he told me this he said that either of those first two were closest to the F1 in his opinion.

I can't suggest getting the SSII ones from Baker Creek b'c I don't know if they have new stock and last year they even wrote in their blurb that some red fruited plants could appear, which means they had some problems since SSII has been perfeectly stable for others.

I have another one sent to me by someone who is working with Sungold and he calls it I think Ambrosia and I expect to grow it out this summer if I have room.

And there's another one that mulio, he who posted above, is working with, but I'll let him tell you about it if he wants to. (smile)

Carolyn

I grew sungold select inside this winter under fluorescent lights and I have to say it's a keeper. It's very sweet. I'll be growing 3-4 plants outside this year.

Perfect! Thank you both for your super-helpful input. I'm now going to add Sungold Select and Sungold Select II To my 2011 "grow list".

Now, where shall purchase these seeds... any recommendations? Thank you!

Dr. Carolyn, pretty please bump this thread with an update for us on Ambrosia later this year (if possible). It's always wonderful to hear from you... thank you!

UPDATE!

In My 2011 Garden This Year:

Big Sun Gold Select (from Marianna's Heirloom Seeds) is the big winner of the "OP Sun Gold" varieties that I planted. It's a huge, healthy, prolific plant with dark, orange fruits that have a rich tomato flavor and some fruity sweetness. Most of the fruits are slightly bigger than Sun Gold F1, as well. I will probably grow this one again.

WOW! Cherry Tomato from Fedco seeds was another huge, healthy and prolific plant, but the fruit wasn't as fruity-sweet as Sun Gold F1. They had a richer, tangy-tomato flavor. Being as I love a super-sweet cherry tomato, I probably won't grow this one again.

Sungold Select II from Baker Creek Heirloom seeds was a huge disappointment. It' not a big, vigorous or prolific plant. The fruit is very sour and tart compared to the other cherry tomatoes in my garden.

Sungella, from Thompson & Morgan, is a healthy plant on the small side that hasn't produced any fruit yet. This year's intense heat has just been too hard on it (even though it's been protected by shade cloth). I will give another update later, if it produces.

My Sun Gold F1 has fruity, sweet, tomatoey delicious fruit born on big, healthy vigorous and prolific plants. IT'S THE BEST! As much as I love saving seeds and "volunteer tomatoes", Mulio was right... why not just grow Sun Gold F1?!!!

I can give you two updates.

First, it turned out that Big Sungold Select is not genetically stable, which I didn't know when Reinhard sent me the seeds as he also did to Brad Gates of Wild Boar Farms. It only became apparent last Fall when folks started reporting back on Big SunGold Select and Brad posted about the instability after he grew some out.

So those planting Big Sungold Select should not always expect to get yellow/orange fruits from an initial planting or same from volunteers. Even Reinhard was surprised when I told him about it, but see above, he was not the one who developed Big Sungold Select, his good friend Manfred Hahm was.

About Ambrosia as I mentioned in an earlier psot in this thread.

The hybridizer is Lee G and from the seeds he sent me I sent some to Craig LeHoullier who raises my plants for me and also to Lee N in NC who helps out with seed production and he knows the Sungold F1 OP selections very well, so I wanted him to rate this one.

However, what he grew out was red. I told Lee G about it and he said he knew what went wrong and would backtrack. But Lee N, with Lee G's OK via me, let just a few folks taste the red version, and they liked it at the recent tomatopalooza in Raleigh, so Lee will be saving seeds from the red one and sending them back to me.

Then Craig spoke up and said he had planted for himself several of my varieties, LOL, and had the desired OP one but hadn't tasted it yet.

Then two days ago I was peering out at my own plants, I can't go out there with this walker, and I see a truss of yellow small cherries, so it looks like I got the right one as well/

Hopefully, between Craig and myself we can save enough seeds so I can offer it in my free seed offer elsewhere that I do each year.

Lastly, how about a selection from a cross between Sungold F1 and Cherokee purple? A working name is Vince P1 and he calls it a "purple sungold". The few folks at T palooza who also got a chance to taste it liked it very much, so hopefully it's stable now, and I'll check back with Vince to see what others with whom he shared seeds with to see about that.

The reason I didn't want the Ambrosia (NOT) and the Vince P1 to be put on the tables where everyone has access is b'c the decision as to a larger seed distribution is up to the hybridizers, not me alone, although Lee G was OK with my making the red available.

Carolyn

Thank you very much, Carolyn... love the updates! I'm super-excited about Ambrosia and Purple Sungold. They would be "must haves" for my own garden trials, when they're available. I can hardly wait to try them.

My first planting of Big Sun Gold Select was not yellow-orange at all. It's more of a dark orange-red. It's an incredibly healthy, strong and heat-tolerant plant, though. The fruits are quite tasty, and they're varied sizes... largish cherry all the way down to current size.

In a previous thread, DarJones had mentioned a cross between Little Lucky and Sun Gold. Have you heard of this as well?

Thank you for your time, Carol! You're input is always so welcome.

Cherokee Purple and Sungold in one package. Tomato Nirvana.

Yes, I know about the cross that Keith Mueller made between Lucky Cross and Sungold F1 that's being called Lucky Sun and it's at another message site where I've learned more about it in terms of the initial assumption that the distinctive scent of F1 Sungold and taste were thought to be genetically linked. But they've come unlinked in the growouts and at least one person working with it, it's still not stable, really likes the taste alone.

And yesterday I asked Freda to bring in a few of those Ambrosia cherries from the bottom of one truss, and ate one yesterday and right now am eating the other three and I like them. The skin is not as thin as F1 Sungold, but the fruits are orange when ripe and about the same size as Sungold F1.

Freda went through all my plants for me yesterday and there are still many that have NO blossoms, a horrible year if you must know, actually my brother visiting me said my tomatoes look pathetic, LOL, so no tasting of the Vince P1 yet.

Frost can appear here as early as September 7th as it has before, and as late as mid Oct, so fingers crossed. And the good thing is that several others are helping with seed production, three in NC and one in IL, so that's good as well, I think. ( smile)

Carolyn

Thank you, Carolyn! Let me know if the Ambrosia flavor gets sweeter as the weather cools. This heat is making my cherry tomatoes smaller and more sour than usual (even under a fancy shade cloth!).

Pretty please, keep me posted on the availability of Vince P1 and Ambrosia or any other Sungold-related varieties. I would definitely purchase those seeds for my garden... thank you. :)

I always thought heat - or sun - is what makes produce sweet. A man once told me (he was referring to strawberries but it makes sense) "The rain makes them grow and the sun makes them sweet." Is that not the case?

I don't know if there's a single key element to making tomatoes flavorful, but we're having a hot summer and also the tastiest cherry-type tomatoes in quite awhile.

Sungold has been excellent, though I slightly prefer Sweet Olive for the crisp texture in addition to full flavor.

The major determinant of tomato taste are the specific genes that any variety has.

And since tomato taste is personal and perceptual and even has a human genetic component it gets all the more complicated.

Beyond that there are many many variables having to do with the weather in any one season, how one grows their tomatoes, what amendments they do or don't use and what kind if so and how much, and on and on.( smile)

Carolyn

Weather variables have made an impact this year. The heat has been so erratic up until oh,...two days ago. We would have two days of summer heat then another week of cool cloudy weather. Hence, my tomatoes set fruit with whatever blossoms were ready during favorable conditions. Small windows of opportunity. So now I have several tomatoes on the vine but nearly no blossoms for future fruit. (they are indeterminates)

Sungold F1 of course

Bump on an old thread.

I'm already got Sunsugar F1 and Sungold F1. I'll be getting Ambrosia Gold (OP) and Big Sungold Select (OP) from Casey's Heirloom Tomatoes of Airdrie and try all four out at the same time.

That ought to be an informative post come August.

smithmal

Here is a link that might be useful: Casey's Heirloom Tomatoes of Airdrie

I trialed several of the imposters back about 10 years ago. Nothing came close to Sun Gold. They were so bad, I'm only again hoping to do another trial this year with Ambrosia Gold and an F4 of Sun Gold that someone claims was extremely close in the F3.

tormato,

How variable was F3 compared to F1 Sungold?

Smithmal, please see my recent post New Hybrid. I had a volunteer this year which was a cross of Black Krim and Sungold. The fruit was golf ball sized on trusses of 6-10, orange and staying green on the tops and a fabulous taste. I hope to repeat it though I know the odds aren't great. Wish me luck. Dr. Glenn Taylor

Dr. T,

Wow. What an interesting cross. How many will you be growing out next year in hopes of retaining the flavor/appearance the original cross observed? I hope you can isolate and save those genetics for the next couple generations. Then you can give it a snazzy name. I must say, finding and developing my own cross is on my bucket list.

smithmal