First time on Salvia forum: please, I need a primer!

17 years ago

I have a young, good-sized garden in the northern foothills of the Apennines, roses are the principle actors, but I have a collector's instincts, a need for a lot of companion plants, and a great liking for herb-y kinds of shrubs and sub-shrubs: lavenders, rosemary, thymes, rue, sages, etc. I have a suspicion sages could play a much larger role in my garden than is currently the case. I know very little about them, and am hoping you members of the sage forum can lend me a hand by answering some basic questions.

First, the garden. It is on a steep, south-facing, sunny slope, roughly USDA zone 8, with hot, dry summers and usually an extended chilly period late fall to early spring. Fall and spring are the main rainy periods. (We've had an extremely unusual year for weather, but what I'm describing is the usual scenario.) Annual rainfall is moderate and there are long periods (months) when it doesn't rain at all; we water only young plants that aren't established yet, or if a plant might otherwise die. The soil is alkaline clay amended with hay, and we keep a hay mulch on the beds. We don't spray or do any disease or pest treatment. Plants that tend to do well include Tea and China roses, aromatic plants like the ones listed above, tall bearded irises, buddleias, box. The only sages I have are S. officinalis and its cultivars, and they thrive under these conditions.

My first question is, what sages are likely to thrive in our garden? I'm looking for plants that are perennial or are likely to reseed, or at least, if delicate, can be readily propagated from cuttings. Fragrance is always an asset. We have a lot of garden and not much labor, so we need plants that don't require coddling. I look for plants that LIKE the conditions we have to offer, rather than converting the conditions to suit plants that are adapted to a different environment. I rarely grow plants from seed, but am used to propagating from cuttings.

Can someone recommend me a good basic, up-to-date book on sages?

I got a mystery plant from a friend who told me it was a sage but couldn't say any more about it. Perhaps someone here can identify it. It reached about four feet tall last year growing in deep shade, has lime-green fuzzy (not velvety) leaves with a vague scent of celery and electric purple spikes of flowers. The top growth dies back at around freezing, but the roots survive if the ground doesn't freeze; I keep a mulch on it. I moved mine from under the persimmon tree to a sunny protected spot and am eager to see how it will do now. I saw what looked like the same plant in a botanical garden in Milan labeled S. fulgens, a name I haven't found in my references. Theirs was taller than mine, I think about six feet, and supported by a trellis. Any ideas as to what it might be?

Possibly these beginners' questions have been amply covered in other threads, in which case I'd appreciate being referred to them. Thanks in advance for all help.

Melissa

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Comments (9)

wardda
17 years ago
I suggest you order Betsy Clebsch's book, The New Book of Salvias from Timber Press. She covers a wide range of sages both New World and Old World and her growing climate is somewhat similar to yours.

Two sites to visit on the internet are A World of Salvias and from that site there is a link to Robinssalvias. Both sites are full of information, and if you like pictures, Robin's is out of this world.

Hopefully you will check in now and then and tell everyone how you are making out, because I agree, salvias would be a great genus for you to grow.
robinmi_gw
17 years ago
Hi Melissa,

Welcome to the forum. Betsy Clebsch's book is great, but I would also recommend John Sutton's "The Gardener's Guide to Growing Salvias." This might be slightly more relevant for Europe. I live in the UK, and find both books most useful. ISBN no. is 0 7153 0803 3.

You may already know that there is a very good Salvia nursery near Lucca, www.leessenzedilea.com

Robin Middleton.
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melissa_thefarm
Original Author
17 years ago
wardda and Robin,

Thank you both for the input. Both of the books sound good, and I'm likely to get them. I have a couple of 'Gardener's Guide' volumes already and they're excellent. Robin, I was vaguely aware of Le Essenze di Lea, and thought that, if I went looking for a source of Salvias in Italy, I probably would find one. It'll take a while to get going on them, as I won't be ordering anything until fall, but I'll report back in once in a while.

Thanks again.

Melissa
dicot
17 years ago
Your climate sounds similar to Southern California's. Here are some of my favorites from my garden:

Black Sage * Salvia mellifera
Blue Sage * Salvia clevelandii
Desert Sage * Salvia dorrii
Golden Sage * Salvia africana lutea (Salvia aurea)
Mexican Sage * Salvia leucantha
Pineapple Sage * Salvia elegans
Purple Sage * Salvia leucophylla
White Sage * Salvia apiana

All of these like unamended clay soils and all, except S. elegans, are exceptionally drought tolerant.
melissa_thefarm
Original Author
17 years ago
Dicot,
Thanks very much for the suggestions. Drought tolerance is essential, as our water is limited. Our climate is like parts of warmer, inland California, I believe. Can your suggested sages tolerate long periods of wet and temperatures in the thirties and forties? The temperature rarely drops below twenty here, though that happens too, but normal winter temperatures from mid-November through March tend to range in the thirties to fifties, and it rains a good deal then. It also freezes. (At least, usually: our winter this year was more typical of what you'd find in Sicily.) Naturally I'll be finding out these things for myself. I'm thrilled at the thought of a new group of drought tolerant plants.

Melissa
CA Kate z9
17 years ago
I'm in the Central Valley of California. We've had a very interesting year weather-wise: super hot summer followed by a cold winter with several weeks of freezing nights -- two extremes.
The Salvias that have survived with only some summer water and no cover in winter are:
S. greggii
S. leucantha
S. clevelandii
S. chamaedryoides
S. gramhammii x lemonii "Maraschino Cherry
S. "Indago Spires"
S. involucrata
S. x jamensis "Sierra San Antonio"
S. microphylla

I have many others, but I left them out because of water needs or they didn't do too well this past winter.
dicot
17 years ago
Melissa,

The white, black and desert sages (S. apiana, S. mellifera, S. dorrii) are all native to the high desert/ Sierra Nevada foothill areas and once established, can come back from frost and wildfire (but don't love sitting in water - plant slightly high so they drain). I'm not as sure about the others, but I bet the S. leucantha and leucophylla can grow in almost any Mediterranean climate.

Also, if your garden is large and you want tough plants from cuttings, I like the various mints. People are always warning that mints spread and take over - which is true, but I've got places in my garden where I really want that to happen. Maybe someday I'll be sorry, but I really enjoy planting S. African bulbs like freesia or ixia with spearmint or peppermint or catmint on top.
melissa_thefarm
Original Author
17 years ago
Wow--lots of good information.

Westelle, I think the Central Valley may be comparable to our conditions here, so your listed plants are ones that will go on my list.

Dicot, since our garden is on steeply sloping land, even with clay soil drainage is good. I let mints romp around in parts of my garden as well, but would Menta varieties grow in such dry conditions? I have a low-growing plant from a friend which I think is a catmint: I like it and am planning on taking bits of it to transplant to other areas for a low groundcover. I doesn't seem to interfere with daffodils coming up through it, is fragrant and pretty, and carefree.

Do you use groundcover thymes? T. longicaulis is creeping and very handsome, there are the forms of T. serpyllum, and T. pulegioides is another good one. All these are fragrant, and well suited to droughty conditions.

Thanks to both of you for your suggestions: they're really helpful.

Melissa
rich_dufresne
17 years ago
If you like ground cover plants for xeric conditions, try Salvia chionophylla, with silvery-white foliage that forms tufts of flowering stems in pockets of good soil it finds. It has the habit of a strawberry or potentilla. Also, S. thymoides, a miniature version of chamaedryoides. S. villosa (also of the Chihuahuan desert) will work as a gray shrublet.

You also have some nice rock garden like Teucriums like T. marum and T. subspinosum with aromatic foliage. The first has dolichodial, used by some insects for defensive purposes and very attractive to cats.

First time on Salvia forum: please, I need a primer!

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