Hi Ken,
When I got into roses I vowed never to exhibate roses. Well the first show I ever went to I was blown away with the fantastic roses. So I entered some, short stem and all. That was 25 years ago. I love to go to shows and explain the different ones to people. I used to sit on the sidelines and now I'm on the "table' a lot! It takes good roses to show roses! and I am out every day to make sure all is well! I show in 6 shows a year.

Tuggy3---You're post brought a smile to my face. When we lived in Fl., almost every show we did the the show chairman always brought new exhibitors over to Debbie and I because they knew we would help them with anything we could. Make them comfortable and SMILED. I've enjoyed helping kids beat adults. Super happy and hooked on roses at an early age. When you teach a kid to pay attention to detail at a rose show it carries over into other parts of their lives as they grow into adults. And if you can help an adult to pay attention to detail, special thing can happen in their life. I know, I've seen it over the years.

ken-n.ga.mts,

We know that I'm someone that wouldn't exhibit - couldn't even be dragged, kicking and screaming, to do it; however, since y'all are making this forum more active I'm checking it too. Just because I don't want to do it doesn't mean it isn't interesting.

And I want to say that I personally think that you, seil, and diane_nj are about the best ambassadors for exhibiting that anyone could hope for.

I'd better stop; I don't want to ruin my reputation.

I posted to this particular thread because I noticed that you wrote:

"...Atlanta spring show of 2012 for my 1st show since retiring...Won...Not bad for a garden that needs two more years before it is mature (by my standerds)."

Now, if I do my math right (and correct me if I'm wrong), then

2012 - 2008 = 3 or 4 years depending on what season the planting started.

Adding "needs two more years before it is mature:"

3 or 4 + 2 = 5 or 6 years.

So, is that correct? Is a mature (rose) garden by your standards one that is 5 or 6 years old?

I ask because one of the things I believe is important is that folks shouldn't judge a rose by its first year or even its second. And I've been trying to get folks to agree that only at least 3 years is fair to a rose.

If I've correctly deduced your personal standard for a "mature garden," then I think it would be REALLY great if you would consider discussing your personal experiences about the difference between the 3 year point and that point of maturity.

Many thanks in advance.

If I didn't understand the age of your mature rose garden, then my apologies and my thanks anyway.

This post was edited by sandandsun on Sat, Aug 30, 14 at 13:53

Thanks, S&S! I would have to agree with Ken's assessment. I never judge a rose on it's first few years of performance. The old adage of 1st year sleep, 2nd year creep, 3rd year leap isn't always true either. Sometimes it takes 4 or 5 years for a rose to really show it's stuff. If, however, after 6 years a rose hasn't given you a single bloom it's time to get out the shovel! (i.e. my Climbing Peace, lol!)

seil,

I'm of the opinion that the best folks aren't perfect, but they keep getting better. You are very welcome, I was and am sincere.

It has not gone unnoticed how tirelessly you attempt to greet, welcome, and offer assistance to each and every new visitor to the rose forum. And I was personally very pleased when I explained my position about the value of disclosure in regards to spray regimes that you said that you understood my point. And I believe you.

Again, I better stop before I FURTHER ruin my reputation!

About my use of the word judge, judging, etc. in the context of this thread, I do not mean show bench judging. I mean judging the rose's performance in the garden, etc.

I'm so pleased that the rose trials here are using a three year span. Oops, I'm getting off point.

I'm hoping that ken n.ga.mts will discuss at length the differences observed in mature plants. (Think awful of me if you will, but it will in no way alter my "I've given you 3 years and well, you're outta here" method!) As far as I've noticed, no one has really discussed the long term. I like to make she who has a "piece of Eden" explain how old the roses in her photos are. But that's as close as I have dared to go on the subject.

Will respond in the morning. Very busy week so far.

What a week. Anyway to answer the question. During the 1st year or two I can usually tell if a rose will exhibit for me, no mater what the class. I will give a rose bush three FULL growing seasons before I even consider taking a rose off of it for a rose show. That means the spring of it's 4th year in the garden. This way the bush has time to build it's cane strength and size. Also during the first 3 years I do not prune my roses hard. Each spring and fall I take out the twiggy stuff in the middle of each bush and basically shape the bush the way I would like it to look. Don't forget, I only do one or two shows in the spring and one or two shows in the fall. The rest of the time my rose garden is for my enjoyment and the neighborhood to enjoy. Now I've had a lot of folks get upset with me over the years because I don't ditch a tried and true rose for a new "just gotta have" rose that hasn't proven itself yet. That's why I still grow Peace, Chicago Peace, Tropicana and a few others from years ago. I'll let other folks grow the new stuff and go by what they have done for them. Now I will go out on a limb every once in a while and get something that's different and see how I like it and how well it grows in my garden. If I see something in it during the first year in my garden, I'll keep it. Not every rose in my garden is what I consider an exhibition rose but every rose in my garden is a show rose. I like all my roses to be the best they can be.

ken-n.ga.mts,

Well, I understand everything you wrote. Except that folks want to edit YOUR garden. Hey, if we can't grow what we want then we must not be living in these United States. I'd have no problem telling them to go edit their own garden!

I understand that you are busy.

When you get time, I REALLY hope you will discuss maturity.

(Psst! Before you read my questions, just know that to a great extent as a gardener I think the first answer to my questions is like the famous Supreme Court quote about pornography - that is, that we know it when we see it. And indeed I do recognize a mature rose plant when I see it, but how do we describe that?)

The questions:

1. How long does it take for each of the various classes that you've grown to reach maturity?

If you feel that the point of maturity is distinctly individual making generalization of any sort impossible, then please remember that generalizations are never perfectly accurate, but can be very helpful to those trying to learn. And such a disclaimer can be made along with the generalization.

2. A description of the differences that characterize mature rose plant/blossoms vs. one that is still on its way to maturity in your opinion?

I'd love to hear your views on these topics.

Again thanks in advance and no hurry.