My children are older now, not babies or children, but I had the same ideas as you when they were little - limited tv, limits on sugary snacks and sweet drinks, breast feeding, etc. And, like you, my mom laughed or ignored some of them. Fast forward 20 years later, my mom appreciates the way I raised my children and she understands now why I made the choices I did. I am very, very glad I had the rules I did when my kids were young - I was right and I'm glad I held my ground. None of your choices sound extreme to me - limiting sugary snacks, limiting t.v., wanting a schedule and more time just the 3 of you, no trip to the beach at 4 months old - those are all reasonable choices. Cheri is right, your parenting ideas will change as your daughter grows. And she is right, your parents have things to contribute as grandparents. But that doesn't mean that you have to raise your children according to your parents' priorities and wishes. However, keep in mind a few things - whenever you talk about the way you want to raise your kids differently - many grandparents would see that as a criticism of how they raised you, their own child. Before you phrase things, think about how they might come across to your parents as implying that their methods were lacking. Also, be sure and make it a point to mention to your parents what they did right. My mom and I have different ideas about television, putting coke in baby bottles, etc., but my mom is also the person who taught me that when things look hopeless you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and work as hard as you can to change things. That is a gift she gave me infinitely more precious than riches or even education. Be sure and tell your parents what things they taught you that you will pass on to your children. Another suggestion that worked for us is that I told my mom that my husband wanted those rules. My mom simply ignored my rules if they were my rules, but she thinks my husband hung the moon and should have whatever he wants, so she (sometimes) listened if she thought it was my husband's wish. She did whatever she dang well pleased if it was just something I wanted. If my mom was particularly stubborn, my husband told her himself that he wanted it that way. Another thing that works well (with grandparents and babies) is to redirect. If your mom wants to take the baby somewhere, tell her no, now is not a good time, but this weekend would be great, how about then. Or if she wants to give the baby icing, tell her no, but baby loves sweet potatoes, why don't you give her that. Grandparents love to see "firsts" - first bite of chocolate, first time at the beach. Tell your parents, no, you can't take her to the beach this year, but when she's 2 you can take her and be there for her first time. You are being more than reasonable to limit tv, unhealthy snacks, limit visits to less frequently than daily or every other day, and set the expectation of higher education for your children early. Your mother is right, your daughter will express preferences of her own one day in education, food, hobbies, etc. That is still no reason not to set your standards high. If you are raising your daughter significantly different than the way you were raised, it will take years for your parents to change their minds. But when they see your daughter as a teenager, healthy and maintaining a healthy weight, doing well in school, winning awards and doing whatever extracurriculars (sports, violin, girl scouts, dance, whatever rings her bell), trust me, your parents will tell you you did your job well. I want to address something else cheri mentioned - her daughter's desire to use organic food, use cloth diapers, read to her children daily (I heartily endorse the part about reading to your children daily, by the way). The drive to be the best mom she could possibly be was strong in cheri's daughter, and even if her daughter changed her ways, she still probably has a strong drive to do her best. That drive should be honored, respected, and as much as reasonable should be indulged by grandparents. The realities of life will knock some practicality into the heads of young parents - let them have their dreams and give it their best shot. When my oldest was a baby my mother-in-law told me this, "In every young mother's life there comes a time when she has to look at her mother and say, 'Mother, you raised your kids the way you wanted, now it's my turn to raise my kids the way I want'." Be loving, be kind, include and affirm the grandparents, and let the grandparents have their way when it isn't important to you. But stand your ground with kindness on the things that matter. Everything you're asking for is reasonable and healthy for your child.

garden60, yes it is a scary thing thinking that our sons will be away from us so long that they will quit caring. I know this is what my dil hopes will happen, I only hope she doesn't succeed or isn't right. Since my son is planning on a family soon, it will be very interesting to see how she handles a baby getting all the attention in place of her. Being narcisstic, this is going to be quite a roller coaster ride for my son I think, who naturally will have most to all of his attention on a new baby. I'm still hoping she doesn't get pregnant right away, and that there is time for him to come to his senses. I'm not even saying he has to leave her, but learn to deal with her control issues and put his foot down about continuing his relationship with his own family. I've heard that people with personality disorders can be dealt with (tho very difficult) once one recognizes the problem. There are many places on the net that give advice to someone learning to deal with this disorder. I know my sons loves her very much, so if he could just learn to control her (and not in the sense that she is controlling him,) then I think things could work out for all of us. However, she is very difficult and so controlling. Cornflakes, I am so glad to hear that you found a new therapist and your working on your anxiety issue. Since anxiety and depression usually go hand in hand, there is a good chance that your anxiety was causing the depression. Good luck in quitting your medication. I think your husband and mine are pretty typical of male reactions to such an estrangement. They are not as outwardly emotional, therefore they keep things in and I believe do get angry instead. However I know my hubby misses our son very much, and wishes he would get his wits about him. Who knows. I can't imagine finding your mother the way you did, but you need to trust the dr. and what he is telling you. I am sure you mom did not suffer, she had already died, which lead to her collapse. I agree we can move on from the deaths easier, and it has been stated as such in many of the books I've read. It is the fact that our loved one has chosen to not be with us, where as in death, almost no one makes that choice. It is a pain deeper then anyone can imagine (except those of us going through it) each day realizing we are still not reunited with our child. Thinking each day that anything could happen, and we may not be here for them. Realizing taht they don't understand this, or are ignoring the possibility. Our children are gambling with the future, and it could be a very high price they pay should they lose. Cindijf, I too feel very badly for your situation. Since your daughter is so young, I still hold out much hope that she will mature and realize what she is doing is not right. Your daughter still has many growing pains to experience, and I believe in time, those pains will teach her what she is too young to realize right now. Keep the hope, as I believe she will be back.

WOW- what to hear what the "other side" says about us on this side? It's amazing how someone who states we should welcome their advice (even though they are not and have never) been in our shoes speaks about our posts... Over in the "singles" section is a place where adult children estranged from their parents has someone who posts here and there actively making fun of our heart felt emotions. I was amazed. One person said "they say they (us) didn't do anything wrong unless they loved to much" and goes on -how ridiculous we are to "think that." I really do not understand how people post deliberate painful words-taken out of context and then expect people to listen to their "words of advice." Or to take our post once again out of context and subject them to ridicule... This is not high school for me-a competition- or certainly a way to expose something so precious to me-to anyone's hateful remarks. Many of us are women who are hurting and personally I just can't imagine someone would posts our remarks in such a way to inflict more pain upon us...Wow- I guess I'm through- That is just too much for me. I'm hope you all have a good Christmas-take care everyone and Thank you for all the support you have so freely given. I really appreciate your kind words, and believe me I've hung on to them all. stray

I had a similar problem with my DD at about the fourish age.. she still has bouts every now and again but for the most part she seems to have grown out of it. And, this was absolutely not a result of divorce poisoning since her bd is no longer alive and hasnt been since she was two...but anyways I will have to Completely disagree with Kathline on this one... perhaps my dd is just a handful but she was fully capable of coming to me to tell me something happened or S said this or that that never happened...(and I did get suspiscous and start to investigate just in case but when she started lieing about conversations that I had overheard... I knew what was up) She also would do the crying for no reason and would be up my rear as soon as I would get home from work. I would come home and my DH would be in the room talking to her about something and everything would be fine until she saw me and then the water works. My DH was very upset by all of this and for a moment started to pull away from her. The only way that things changed was when I looked at how I reacted to it. Everytime she would cry I would ask what's wrong and try to get her to tell me why she was crying (attention!!) and when she would tell me things about DH I would go and ask him what really happened and then go back to her (attention!!) When I stopped playing into it ... she stopped. I know most of it had to do with her now sharing her mom with five other people and I am a fairly laid back person.. I grew up as the oldest of four in a cramped house that usually had all kinds of extra folks...like my cuz who lived with us on and off... so I am used to loud crazy atmospheres with lots of jokes lots of insults lots of everyone talking on top of everyone else... but my husband is not... he cant take the loud noise and he insists on no mam and no sir or vice versa.. so she was adjusting to having another adult in the house that did play like mom does and then on top of that she was not the "golden child" anymore (she was the only grandchild niece great grand etc etc) she had to share with three other kids... But, I started ignoring the crying when I would come home... I would just pop in to say are you hurt? oh well then cant be that bad get done whatever DH asked you to do... and when she would tell me something that wasnt true I would ask Dh infront of her if that was true ... and she would get punished accordingly usually go sit on your bed for x amount of time and then we will talk about again later (because ofcourse by that time the water works started).. It took awhile for her to realize that I wont play her game anymore and she is doing much better these days... But, not to say this is the case with your daughter because there is some divorce poison going on but even without it that can happen... I think the best thing to do is to change how you and your DH react to it and I think that mom2emall had a few good suggestions.