Attempting to propagate a China Doll

16 years ago

Or as I prefer to call them, Emerald Tree :)

I bought a small 4" pot full of them in October -- turns out there's about 12 of these plants in my pot, and they've recently exploded so I'm trimming some parts back and propagating the cuttings.

The only thing I really could find online was someone who said it was tough, they won't all make it, but the best bet was cut diagonal below a node, strip the leaves off that node, make sure there's at least 4 nodes above.. dip in rooting hormone (I have none.. but I heard honey works so I did that), then into the wet soil and a plastic bag over them for humidity.

Hope it works! If not, there's plenty more cuttings to come, I'm sure.

Featured Answer

Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL

11 years ago

Hi Matt, welcome to Gardenweb! Being your first post, one could be suspicious about it being spam. Hopefully you're just a fan of that company, and this beautiful tree.

It's a shame, a couple of the posts above. If the person had the knowledge to locate the botanical name, they may have found sufficient propagation info on their own, or simply didn't think it was necessary since china doll universally refers to Radermachera sinica. Hostile info, go figure... not necessary to help someone figure out what kind of plant they have so their questions may be addressed.

I clicked on this to read how others' props were going with this, but unfortunately there's none of that here. There does seem to be a general lack of knowledge/success stories "out there" about propagating this plant. I'll be attempting this later in the spring... from what little I can find to read, it sounds like fresh or semi-woody material is best, not hard wood, but that's pretty standard for propagation...

Anyone have a story to tell? Did anything good happen with yours, Dalar? Sirena?

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (14)

taxonomist
16 years ago
First of all I believe that you must determine the botanical name of this plant. Common names are mostly meaningless and perhaps a hundred miles away, your common name is completely unknown!!!
Secondly, I would very strongly recommend taking a look at Ken Druse's publication; Making More Plants. The library call number is 635.9 DRU. It is invaluable for a person like yourself who seems to be just beginning.
Thirdly, if you are able to determine the correct, current name of the China Doll, please let me know what it is.
SirenaNe
12 years ago
The common name is NOT completely unknown!! If you can't look it up for yourself here it is!! China Doll Radermachera sinica. Common Name: China Doll, Emerald Tree, Serpent Tree Latin Name: Radermachera Sinica Family: Bignoniaceae

Dalar, I am interested to know how it turned out! I have a China Doll that is quite leggy, tall and really full on top and I am thinking of cutting it back. Such a shame because the top is extremely full and healthy! I am interested to know if the top part can be rooted to make a second plant. Did yours take root??
Related Discussions
Transplanting China Doll and others from basket
Q
Comments (3)
Hmm. You'll find the difficultly of repotting these to depend how intertwined the different root structures are. I just recently "moved" a china doll of similar size. I purposely shied away from "breaking up" any of the roots, and attempted to plant the root structure with all the oil soil into a new container, spreading the "roots" only enough to flatten them just a wee bit (it was uneven lol). It then tripled in size in three months :) Personally, my method always goes by "remove the pot, let the soil gently fall apart, obsess over not injuring the roots, replant with as much of the original soil as possible". I'm sure there are more precise procedures, though ::
...See More
China Doll Pruning
Q
Comments (50)
How forgiving your tree is depends in large part on what approach you take to reverse its decline, and timing plays an important part in determining how enthusiastically your tree will react to your ministrations. Let me know if you want to make a plan that will begin with eliminating the mealybug problem and entering into a discussion about what's going on in the root zone. In addition to my offerings here, it's likely I'll offer some links to short (short in comparison to a book, but longer than the average GW/Houzz post) articles/posts I wrote, which you can read at your leisure. Sound like something you're up for? Al
...See More
Lady Hillingdon, Weeping China Doll, Lavender Lassie?
Q
Comments (8)
I can only speak to Lavender Lassie. Lavender Lassie only reblooms for me if the winter and winter/spring transition has not been too severe. This past year was the first year since that awful Easter freeze of '07 that she and any of my other established hybrid musks rebloomed. If Lavender Lassie is doing okay, it blooms heavily in the spring and then a little more in the fall, but that is about it. No magic answer on this one.
...See More
Fiddle leaf fig - do I really have to air layer to propagate?
Q
Comments (16)
@Cassie (8b Southern AZ, high desert) Hi Al, do you normally use the ring or the tourniquet method when you air layer your ficus plants? Or do you do a combination of both (you mentioned using a tourniquet and blanching part of the stem/branch?)? It would depend on the Ficus species. For most Ficus, I propagate by cuttings, because I've found that under mist or in a humidity chamber, you can start some really thick cuttings of many ficus species (3"+). This image of F salicifolia was a cutting started from the top of a much larger tree. Same tree as above - first pruning after rooting ^^^. Ficus microcarpa cutting ^^^ in process of rooting - note new buds opening. Removing the tops of trees in training is sort of a way to create an almost instant bonsai. Once the tree is fully rooted. a little wiring to reposition branches will turn it into a 'believable' tree, resembling something one might see in nature. If we take the misting and high humidity out of the equation, I prefer ringing the plant; however, even when I use the ring method, I often use a tourniquet immediately below the top of the ring. While I'm thinking of it, the rule of thumb for the ht of the ring is, it should be at least 1/5x the diameter of the branch/ trunk being layered. Also, when you peal the bark back on many species of trees, a very thin layer of vascular cambium usually remains attached to the sapwood beneath it. It is crucial to remove that white/tan layer of tissue as part of the layering process. I'm guessing my reason for layering is probably going to differ from yours. Most plants I layer is because they are seedlings, and as such have a very ugly root system. Strong roots that radiate horizontally away from the trunk and a trunk flare at the base of the tree eventually become a critical consideration for almost every bonsai enthusiast who has practiced bonsai for more than a decade. Eventually, we develop the idea that everything we do should focus on bringing out the tree's best potential, even if we are not the owner who sees it realized. Often, that will result in trees in training for 20 years before they even see a bonsai pot. I couldn't even guess at the number of times I've been a part of brain-storming over a tree, my own or someone else's, and making radical changes that turn a tree which is an acceptable specimen in its own right, back into a bonsai in training for the sole reason a better way to bring out the tree's potential was discovered. The image below is a Trident maple which was air-layered off of it's original set of roots which were way to ugly for my purposes. I used only the ring method for this tree (wire still attached if you look closely). Notice how the roots are almost perfectly spaced (some incongruity adds to the appeal of living plants) and radiating away from the trunk. That is what I was after. The tree below is a Korean hornbeam, and 3-image sequence below shows first what a tree's seedling roots usually look like. Many growers work hard at trying to get these roots straightened around, but I have learned better results cam be had in far less time and with less effort, bu layering the plant off of its old roots. This is one way of using the tourniquet method (below), which takes much longer than ringing/ girdling or a combination of a tourniquet and ringing/ girdling. With a tourniquet, as the diameter of the trunk increases the vascular cambium is compressed as the tourniquet tightens. This 'chokes off' downward movement of photosynthate (the plant's food) and auxin, the hormone that stimulates root development and branching. With food and a surplus of the tree's natural rooting hormone accumulating immediately above the tourniquet, you can be quite certain of a plethora of roots emerging within a short vertical space. With an understanding of the tree's wounding response, I deduced that drilling holes with a 3/16 brad-point drill turned with my fingers and filled with a insoluble rooting gel should help coax the tree into producing an exceptional root base. The roots in the first image (of the trident maple) are the result of this method. Ring + tourniquet method ^^^ BTW - I no longer use zip ties as a tourniquet as they sometimes fail/ break - especially on thick layers on branches/ trunks larger than 1". I use 2-3 wraps of aluminum bonsai wire in size 2-3mm with the ends twisted tight with pliers. The wraps should touch each other, which forces all rooting to occur above the layer. What type of soil do you use when you air layer, since you don't use sphagnum moss? I'm assuming this is one of the few times you want something moisture retentive - do you use a regular potting soil? Peat moss? Seed starting mix? I usually use gritty mix for just about everything I use a pot to layer. Below, there are 2 things going on. I had just finished establishing an air layer on the hornbeam in the background and I was working on pruning 2 China dolls and 2 asparagus ferns. I was layering the hornbeam because the trunk was much too long/ tall given the thickness of the trunk, so the best way to shorten the trunk was to layer it off of it's old roots and start a new root system higher up. The top of the ring cut is at approximately the ht of the duct tape holding the pot together. Below, is a hackberry tree being layered. You can see the gritty mix in the pot This is the same hackberry, same summer, after being separated from the mother plant. In case you noticed, it's planted deep on purpose. I will let it grow wild (almost completely unpruned) and begin work on it in spring of '24. And last question (for now!), what time of year do you typically start your air layering? Spring. I like to have them separated by the end of July. Do you try to time it to plant the new plant in June, or is some other time preferable? If we're still talking about Ficus, spring will always be the best time. If I was layering, I would start the layer on Ficus just before or when I move them outdoors. They really start to want to grow then, so we might as well take advantage of the tree's natural inclinations. I'm wondering if it's better to start the process in June, since you're effectively pruning the parent plant, which would put separating the new plant sometime in August? Geography plays an important role in deciding what the best timing is. I bet you would be fine starting your layers in early May, especially if your plants are outdoors. Then, you should have no problem separating in July-August. Thanks in advance! (And I suppose apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but made more sense in my mind than starting a fresh one and linking back here). No worries. Things are slow on the forum and my wife is recovering from some recent surgery, so I have to be home and indoors for a few more days, it looks like. I'm glad for the opportunity to kill some of the time it always seems so important to save. ;-) Al
...See More
brandon7 TN_zone7
12 years ago
I totally agree with taxonomist, throwing out a name like "China Doll" is totally insufficient. There are cultivars of more than one plant called 'China Doll' and probably variations of that name. Maybe one could argue that by including both "China Doll" and "Emerald Tree", one could narrow it down using a search engine (if not familiar with both names), but using the correct scientific name would make things MUCH easier!
Matt68046
11 years ago
The best propagation is from seed of course! And for $3.00 per 1000 seeds, you cant go wrong. Try Seedscoseeds.com (anderson seed co.) if you really want to propagate them this is the way to go.
brandon7 TN_zone7
11 years ago
Unfortunately, many people just assume that a common name refers to only one plant. This naive viewpoint is probably due to lack of experience, but certainly adds to the confusion out there. Take, for instance, the name "China Doll". I can think of at least a dozen different species of plants with that name as one of its common names, as one of the cultivar names, or as part of one of these. Describing it as being universally associated with just one plant is...well just universally wrong. As I pointed out originally, having both "China Doll" and "Emerald Tree", does point strongly to SirenaNe's recommendation. But, someone not familiar with both of these names would have to do a google search or something to figure out what was being discussed. I actually think Taxonomist's attempt to point this out was quite helpful, and MUCH more so than that last post.
Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
11 years ago
Regardless of generalities, the google search linked above is conclusive on this particular plant to me.

I see that Dalar has not seen this discussion worthy of return or followup comment, which is usually the case for any OP who receives such answers. And I know they are from people who could have easily helped confirm the ID of the plant in question. A step I agree is necessary to avoid incorrectness and wasted time but there is no reason to just say "I can't say until YOU figure out the Latin name of your plant" unless you are just trying to massage your own ego. Brandon, you provided a pleasant, informative reply to a question of mine in shrub forum today. You could have easily done the same here, we both know it.
"Is your tree is a Radermachera sinica? The reason we should confirm that is..." C'mon dude, fer real man.
brandon7 TN_zone7
11 years ago
Maybe Tax could have done the Google search and found the plant, but it's also possible he tried and couldn't make a determination! I don't personally know Tax and have no idea how good he is with Google, but lets assume that he had never heard the common name of the plant and didn't realize that the OP's mention of "Emerald Tree" referred to a common common-name (I can sure see, given the wording of the original post, how that part could be overlooked). Now let's imagine he googled "China Doll" (without the word "plant"). Remember, we don't know how crafty he might be with Google (probably most people I talk to on here lack really good googling skills). Who knows how many search results he would have had to have gone through to even find an entry with the proper ID, and, even then, how would he know when he had (remember he may not have even been thinking about the "Emerald Tree" mention).

The important point, IMO, is that this thread remained unanswered for FOUR YEARS because no one came along that could properly ID the plant. Some of this was certainly because the post eventually slipped down before someone that could do the ID saw it (I probably didn't run across it until SirenaNe brought it back up), but a BIG part of why it wasn't answered was because of a lack of proper ID. Apparently, NO ONE that read the post in those four years could ID the plant. Imagine how easy it would have been if the OP had been able to provide the proper ID up front! That's why using the botanical names of plant (whenever possible) is soooooo important.

And, BTW, the reason I didn't go back and answer the OP was that it had been 4 years and there was no response from the OP. I felt it very likely that the OP was no longer looking for the answer and had probably even forgot about asking.
Matt68046
11 years ago
Sorry about the confusion. I am not advertising. I just love anderson seed and i LOVE china dolls. Eric is a very nice guy, him and me talk for hours about seeds and china dolls. The tip cutting will root, but they are very prone to just sit there and rot. And forget completely rooting anything other than a bud tip, it just don't happen fast enough before the plant dies out. Germinating Radermachera seed is not easy either, as they will damp off unless you use a fungicide soil drench. I grow china doll seeds in a jiffy 72 cell pack, i use Captan at time of planting, and i use a bottom heat pad and i cover the seed flat with the plastic cover. At 85 degrees you will get 75% or more germination. This is by far the easiest way to propigate them. A couple of years ago i had 60 4" plants that i grew and gave away and sold for a couple bucks. They had too many plants in each pot tho, so they did not grow fast. I did this outside on my back patio.
liz2525
10 years ago
Hi,
Thanks to every one for the information. I love this plant. it is so pretty. First stop is for Captan, after I get the seeds of course. Any sugestions about Shefflera? I bought 2 plants that looked healthy but both died within a week??? Any help would be so greatly appreciated, thanks again, Liz2525
tammy1969holcomb
8 years ago
Wow!! I was looking up info on my "china doll" plant and all I got was people bickering back and forth about "proper" names. Thanks everyone for NOTHING!
gardenprincethenetherlandsZ7/8
8 years ago
Using Latin names usually gives a lot of information when doing an online search. I'm Dutch and when I read "china doll" all I can think about is "a doll made in China" ;)
Kathryn Fessia
6 years ago
RankScientific Name and Common Name

Kingdom Plantae – Plants

Subkingdom Tracheobionta – Vascular plants

Superdivision Spermatophyta – Seed plants

Division Magnoliophyta – Flowering plants

Class Magnoliopsida – Dicotyledons

Subclass Asteridae

Order Scrophulariales

Family Bignoniaceae – Trumpet-creeper family

Genus Radermachera Zoll. & Moritzi – china doll

SpeciesRadermachera sinica (Hance) Hemsl. – china doll

The common name China Doll returns ONE scientitfic rank profile. ONE.

It took me literally 30 seconds to find this on a search of "china doll plant scientific name" now, years later you all have the answer to what this mysterious plant is called..... exactly what it was called in the first place.... what a waste of your time and energy to be incredibly unhelpful... and rude.

Also, curious to now those dozen plants with this common name.... no mention of them anywhere on the internet in my searches....

To answer the question IF anyone is interested: it is hard to propagate these (I don't know why), if you do try, cut a green stem not the woody ones, place in soil not water, place a bag over the top so it can have a humid environment while it tries to put out those roots, place in a bright location but not direct sunlight. Keep it moist but not sopping wet. Good luck! Out of 5 tries 2 have been successful for me. I agree its easier from seed but there is just something about trying to get those roots to grow from a stem.... love the challenge!
Denise Leonard
8 months ago
Tried shrivel every time

Attempting to propagate a China Doll

Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL

Comments (14)

taxonomist

SirenaNe

Related Discussions

brandon7 TN_zone7

Matt68046

brandon7 TN_zone7

Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL

brandon7 TN_zone7

Matt68046

liz2525

tammy1969holcomb

gardenprincethenetherlandsZ7/8

Kathryn Fessia

Denise Leonard

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US