Here is an awesome place to read more about Black tip

http://www.plumeria101.com/problems/black_tip.html

We do get Black tip here in Florida. There are some plants that are more prone to Black tip like Lurline for example. YOu definately now can;t say "the wet in South Florida is never a problem". July or August are usually our wettest months here as it rains every afternoon and now with Tropical Storm Kay, many of us are underwater about now!
Chris

Here is a link that might be useful: Black Tip

Hi Dave,
I too don't totally know that much about black tip what causes it. My only experience was keeping singapore inside, out of the cold elements in my house, for months during the winter. Then put it out for two days in March and thought warm nights..instant total black tip covered, dripping ooze..that fast. I had never had that happen or ever seen it.

I don't know much about spider mites either. Hope you can find the answer.
Karen B

Thanks Chris and Karen,

I really want to understand this better. Jack (kimisdad) says it's not really a fungus. In fact he mentioned that in California some samples were taken to a lab and no fungus was found. So in my estimation, employing a vigorous fungicide spraying program is a waste of time and resources. The underlying cause is likely something else, which, if left unchecked, could damage the plant even more. I've read the Plumeria 101 site and it calls it a fungus (but it's not, so I'm not sure I totally trust what that site has to say about it). Although fungus can be found in dead tissue, it's likely a condition secondary to cell death.

I think a better name for it would be 'black tip necrosis', (necrosis meaning 'cell death'). My theory is the plumeria simply manifests stress (any kind) by aborting its tips. And it's more prone to this at certain times of the year.

Sean Miller's site seems to indicate that spider mites can cause enough damage to initiate black tip. I think bad mites on the tips could be one cause...especially when the plants are not growing vigorously yet. I think keeping plants too dry in late winter (when they want to grow) could be a cause. Also keeping plants too cold and wet (when they want to grow) can be a cause as well.

In my plants I've found it to be self-limiting for the most part. Once the tip turns black, eventually it breaks off and new growths develop beneath it. But I suppose if conditions (or bugs, or whatever) are bad enough or prolonged, then necrosis could spread downward, though I've not seen that happen with my plants.

Spring seems to be the worst time for a number of my plants. I don't know if it's because the roots are not able to pull up enough water to keep tips healthy or the vaguaries of the weather (probably both).

The fact that certain varieties are more affected is interesting too. Some of my rainbows seem to be most affected.

Anyway, I'd really be interested in what some of the Plumeria societies are saying about it. Surely they have lectures on topics such as these.

Dave, I don't know if you read this post or not. More info at the conclusion of post.
Thu, Jul 24, 08 at 11:20

"Just a note about what is commonly called black tip among plumeria growers. Black tip in NOT caused by fungal issues according to the latest research. Several of us on the West Coast have sent samples of "black tip" to labs. The conclusion of the labs testing on freshly harvested new appearances of stems with "black tip" was "no fungus found". With older stems there were findings of fungal (fuserium being one) activity leading to the conclusion that fungal activity was secondary. Another study by Sean Miller and recognized by Dr. Criley was; mites on the tip of stems cause stress to the plant and the plumeria develops "black tip".

See this link:
http://plumeriatc.org/

It's a changing world out there (lol) it is sad the Plumeria Societies don't recognize these latest scientific findings. Sean Miller discusses treatment for mites at his web site. We mostly know how to treat fungal issues with fungicides. This method doesn't always rectify the problem, finding the source of the stress is also part of the remedy. "Black tip" is much more complex then a simple fungal issue this is why it can become very difficult to control."

Here is a link that might be useful: Sean Miller"

Many of your conclusions on this subject seem logical and agree with the latest buzz and studying. As you well know all the plumeria societies and many that have websites stick to "fungus" as the cause. Trying not to be repetitious fungal issues are a secondary issue in all cases studied by me and others. We have found the healthier the plant the less issues with "black tip". What we know as "black tip" does not occur often or not at all in many tropic areas. The plumeria defined by science is a "tropical succulent tree". Most that frequent this forum grow their plumeria out of its natural habitat. In addition it may grow in sub tropical regions such as Southern California and Florida however the many issues including "black tip" prove that science is correct in labeling it a TROPICAL TREE.

Jack

Jack,

Exactly! That's what I was trying to hypothesize. I think you probably said it in a better way. LOL! It is the conditions that we in the non-tropical regions must subject our plumerias to (in certain times of the year) that can lead to the stress under which the plumerias react by tip die-back. We can spray fungicide until our fingers are tired, but if the plants are too cold, wet, or have a prolonged mite infestation (or fill in the blank), there will still be a problem.

What I'm trying to do is nail down the conditions that lead to this stress so that I can avoid them. Growing mine in a cold area and in pots and not in the ground gives me some advantages and disadvantages.

Disadvantages:
Limited root system.
Prolonged 'dormant' period.
Overly dry air and low-light levels in winter.
Spider mite problems in winter.

Advantages:
I can move the plant into a warmer situation and out of the rain.
Nearly ideal drainage/soil conditions.

I still would like to better understand the role that spider mites can play in 'black tip'.

~Dave

Dave,

Container growing is not a disadvantage until the tree is at least 3-10 years old. And in your zone planting in the ground would be a difficult option. The California Nursery business has proved time after time that young trees of most families can grow as fast or faster in a container rather then the ground. Naturally there are some exceptions such as eucalyptus and plumeria is not an exception. There are those that will disagree with me however they have not done the side by side with "control plants". Depending on type most trees will never obtain their full size being grown in a container. In the 1950's through and including the 1970's much was being done by the nursery biz. to set the matter straight. I can give you a list of techniques that will target your situation. However it will not necessarily relate to this thread about black tip. It would be more fitting such as "Container growing plumeria". I have thirty eight year old plumeria that have been in containers all their life and have fared well. In addition, there are many container grown trees that are classified as "bonsai" that are over three hundred years old. The issue is not necessarily the container it is the health of the tree.

Jack

Jack,

I would love to see some photos of these old 'bonsai' plumerias. By all means feel free to comment on 'Container-growing plumerias' in this thread. I did see your recipe for soil mix. Have you heard of a product called 'Clay Breaker'? Our local Home Depot sells it and it looks like it contains small bark chips (pine fines) along with Calcium and Gypsum. It is supposed to be used to break up heavy, clay soils, but I've been adding it to my potting mix for a very light, well draining mix. I've used it for just a few plumerias and a large hibiscus but need to make more observations before I can tell if it's really helping. Seems to be.

Yes..Jack, I would also be interested in reading the information you have on 'container growing plumeria'. Although we are able to plant them here-inground, all mine are in containers. I can't read eneough about plumeria--sometimes, before I know it, hours just slip away!!!

Thanks in advance!!! MJ

Dave,

I was unclear about the bonsai I was referring to bonsai in general having very old plants in containers. As an example I visited Bonsai Master John Naka's home in the late 1950's and saw a "Gold Cup Oak" tree over three hundred years old. That was quite an experience.

MJ,

May I suggest you or someone start 'container growing plumeria' thread as I don't want members to think me presumptuous in starting a thread for despensing my own information. lol

Jack

Hi Dave,
You said you had a spider mite problem..How can you tell if you have spider mites?
Karen B

Well, when I notice spider mites it's either on the larger leaves -- usually they start along the midrib on the top surface of the leaf. You'll notice a lighter color and a graininess in texture. They progress outward.

Then you can also see them on the inflos at the very growing tip. Usually you see the webbing first. Unless you have a magnifying glass. They tend to show up more here in the hottest, driest part of the growing season when there's little rain -- like this month!

Hi Dave,
thanks, will keep a watch for that. This fall have bought a lot of shade cloth to go over my plants. going to try and keep some of them on my patio, cover them, and tarp the area.. Shade cloth Protects to 30 degrees. Some will bring inside..pray for both of us, mild temps this winter.

Karen B

Karen B. They can also show up on the undersurfaces of the leaves. Forgot to mention that. ~Dave