Rethinking a Peter Rabbit Garden...X-post
lavender_lass
10 years ago
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lavender_lass
10 years agoRelated Discussions
i am not a fan of hybrid teas...
Comments (60)I think adding lots of compost to the soil is very important for any rose, they respond to it by growing a few new canes every year. I noticed it after I started mulching my rose beds with mushroom compost instead of wood mulch; its much cheaper for me too. Of course, rose growth benefits a lot from plenty of water (especially when it gets really hot and dry) and enough fertilizer. It's true that some HTs are genetically bushier than others. But I also believe in pruning. I don't think every Ht should be chopped down to 12 inches. I prune every rose, including HTs, differently depending on their growth habit. Ill give examples for the three roses I posted pictures of. No matter how much Ill fight, Peter Mayle wants to be very tall. His canes are very fat and strong, so they support nicely 3 foot or longer new spring growth. So I cut off about 2/3 of the canes leaving about 3 foot tall central canes with a cut made above the outward growing bud. The outer canes are cut more (on any rose), leaving maybe 2 feet, to form a nice shape. After a spring hair cut Peter looks kind of oval all around, this way hell grow flowers not only on the top. I try not to leave canes looking like long sticks. I try to cut above the places when the main canes branching out. I know, its not recommended leaving any branches growing inside of the bush and letting them cross with other branches, but I do not follow this rule. First of all, every branch will make a few new branches and the bush itself will look very full, well foliated, and produce more flowers. Secondly, next spring all those mechanically damaged from wind and rubbing each others canes will be cut off anyway. If at spring pruning time, a cane looks aged or damaged, Im not scared to cut it off all the way to the graft, because I know that as soon as a rose looses one of the main canes, it sends a few new ones to replace the lost cane. It is recommended to cut off all weak side growth of the main canes. I do not do that. Those weak short branches are good for growing foliage to cover the lower part of the canes. Yves Piaget does not throw long strong canes, it has more graceful habit of growing, and it likes to be wider than taller. It is already a well-developed and mature plant. So the purpose of pruning in this case is to shape it up. I trim off only a foot or a foot and a half, as much as is needed to make the rose pretty from all sides. This spring I had to cut off two major canes, and now Yves is growing, probably seven new canes. It will allow me next spring to get rid off a few older canes to keep the plant younger and more floriferous. Bronze Star almost every spring gets really bad canker and spring pruning leaves very few 18 inch or so ugly looking stubs. But she is a strong grower and in no time sends lots of stems and by the first flush shes already over three-foot tall ball and loaded with lots of huge flowers. I continue keeping the pleasant shape of roses every time I deadhead them, even if "deadheading" means cutting 2 feet off. Sorry for this long and probably not very clear explanation, its much easier to do or show than to describe....See MoreFertilizing non-soil
Comments (11)Lyn: I don't have glacier slurry, but I can give you answers from folks who grow plants in potted medium with thin layer of soil mixed with peat poss. From High Country Rose, who gave me the healthiest bands, like over 1 foot tall Pat Austin with a 4" bloom. Here's THEIR secret to tall plants in tiny bands: "We use Daniels fertilizer (liquid) on our roses and our soil has mycorrhizone in it." Daniels fertillizer is also used by other large nurseries. It's 40% lower in salt and soy-based. The ink on your newspaper is also soy-based, and people report worms loving that stuff. The other expert is University of Kentucky, College of Agriculture. Their research is entitled "Organic Fertilizers and Composts for Vegetable Transplant Production" - I grow both tomatoes and roses, they are similar in being deep-rooted, like well-drained but fertile soil. You can read their research at: http://www.uky.edu/Ag/HLA/anderson/orgfert3.pdf The differences between chemical and organic fertilizer are: 1) chemical is faster, but higher in salt 2) chemical leaks out of the water, and does not build up nor improve your soil 3) you have to water the plants more if you use chemical The downfall of organics can be seen from the above U of Kentucky research, such as: bagged compost cow manure came with a low pH of 4, versus a high pH of 8.21 for composted horse manure - the potted soil medium MetroMix 500 is best with pH at 5.29. In that experiment, the chemical fertilizer Peter's 20-10-20 came out ahead of the organics: The plants with Peter's were green and tall, the plants with cow manure slowed down and yellowing started to occur, the plants grown in worms and horse compost, or the NO fertilizer control were stunt, including purple stems, yellow and dead leaves at the base. My conclusion: if you have the advantage of porous, super-well drained soil, plus plenty of rain - then go with chemical fertilizer, it's faster. I stick with organics since my soil is heavy clay, poor drainage, and whatever salt I put in from chemical fertilizer stays there longer. My logic is: Why should I give excess salt to my plants, they get thirsty and I have to waste time watering them? Folks who live in a dry, hot region plagued with drought would do better with organics, since they have less salt, improve the soil, and hold moisture better. My favorite stuff to acidify the soil is peat moss (1 to 2 inches mixed with the top 6" of native soil can lower pH by one point). The second favorite is alfalfa meal with root-stimulating hormone, I mix with flaky horse manure and use as mulch. We don't know the damage of chemicals to the environment until later. One example is aluminum sulfate, once recommended to acidify the soil. Now it's known that excess aluminum kills plant roots, and the experts recommend sulphur or peat moss instead....See MoreI hate tomato cages.
Comments (45)From flora2b; a roll of 6' tall concrete reinforcing wire [or so called pig fence] from the hardware store and cut it into pieces, forming circular columns. I cut off the bottom row of wire so I could insert into the earth and add a rod on each end. I tie them all together and have yet to have a wind take them anywhere. I don't prune until end of July when they start to grow out the top (supposed to help the fruit size up) The spacing is 6" x6" so it is easy to access the fruit or get in and prune if need be. In spring I wrap with plastic for extra heat boost and usually remove end of June. From Wally; I cut the wire so that the ends can be formed as a hook to the other end so they can be laid out flat at the end of the season to store without using up too much space. There were a few years back, one they called "Japanese tomato ring." This was a permanent structure. It was filled with soil, manure, compost, etc. At the top a bath type or depression was made in the soil which would be planted with herbs, etc. All watering is done thru the top and all tomato plants were planted around this structure. By this process the tomato plants would receive food and water on a regular basis. This would require each cage wires to be cut about 12 feet long and anchored with steel fence posts. It also would not allow for the added protection of the plastic wrap unless you ran extra steel fence posts outside this area as to be able to wrap the plastic. If you use the concrete reinforcing wire which will not give when or bend well you could cut it into 4 even sections with each hooked together with the wire from one end to the other allowing the structure being folded away at the end of each season for easy storage....See MoreMy adventures in tomatoes (AKA - Ignorance is bliss)
Comments (14)Amending the soil is definitely top priority. Not much grows here so there isn't a lot of stuff I can use for composting. (My garden is 2500 sq. ft. so yea it's going to take a bunch.) I do have horse poo and probably access to a lot of leaves this fall from a friend in town so I'm working on a plan to start as soon as I start pulling up things. I was over reading in 'Soil, Compost & Mulch' last night and hurt my brain again so I came back here. Thank you so much Peter for taking the time to provide more information on bacterial diseases, it is appreciated. I'd like to try to avoid the copper if it will eventually build up and hurt my soil (it's bad enough already). Very interesting about the bacteria not over-wintering and probably coming in on transplants or seeds. The plot thickens... The tomato plants are all my own starts. These seeds were purchased from local big box stores - Better Boy from Ferry Morse, Ind. Day from Livingston seed, Rutgers from American seed and the 4OJ was from Burpee online. I don't think it came from the seeds, here's why (and of course I could very well be wrong). On May 30 I planted 16 plants that showed no spots. About 3 weeks later they had spots. I clipped most of the bad branches (some plants still had spots but I had to leave some leaves) and mulched. I gave 3 plants of different types to my neighbor in May. I was just over there yesterday and none of hers have spots. I still had 4 plants left so I planted and mulched them in a different garden on June 30; 2 Rutgers, a 4OJ and an Ind. Day. None of these have spots. I may have an idea but it's sort of far-fetched. My potatoes are right next to my tomatoes. I planted reds and whites that are my own stock (this is the 3rd year they've grown in my soil) and some russets. The russets came from a random stand I noticed when we were visiting in MN last May. The russets all have tiny spots on the leaves. In June I noticed how far behind the growth of the russet plants were. I saw the spots and the leaves were sort of curling. In the last month the plants have finally grown more, are blooming and aren't as curly but the spots are still there. BTW my reds and whites are fat and happy without a spot to be seen, weird. While it seems possible the russets are the culprit (because I think I read somewhere that potatoes and tomatoes can share diseases) it seems so odd that within 3 weeks of planting and the potatoes only up for 2 weeks all my tomato plants were infected. Could bacteria really spread that fast?...See Morenancyjane_gardener
10 years agofreezengirl
10 years agofreezengirl
10 years agolittlelizzy123
10 years agolavender_lass
10 years agoJennifer_Ruth
10 years ago
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