I've only sown perennials and biennials so far.so I figure maybe they'd.be ok anyway because that's similar to whY they'd go through.in.nature....? No, it's not similar. In nature the seeds are where ever they fall or are blown by winds and they germinate when mother nature tells them to which is not within a covered area that is providing as much excess warmth as you would be with all the extra covering that you are talking about. Also in nature, the seeds are fully open to the elements of mother nature, snow, rain, sleet, sun, clouds etc. which provide all the necessary requirements for the seeds to germinate. The containers that we use for WS already increases the soil temp a small amount, but what it really does is contain those seeds in one location so that they germinate where they are placed instead of at the mercy of mother nature and where mother nature may or may not have them travel. this idea may or may not work, but at the same time, you can not plant out before the proper time and you would think you would have to "harden them off" as they are not germinating in a "natural environment and temperatures" that are part of your zone and especially your yard and garden beds. What you are describing doing, at least as I read it, is to create an outdoor location to attempt to circumvent the indoor light setup for growing under lights, have the room that can go with wintersowing, yet have, at least some of the control of growing under lights; i.e. the earlier germination and plant size when it comes to plant out time. So there was.no extra effort to put them in there aside from lifting up the fabric and plastic. Now I'm a bit confused. Fabric? is there fabric covering your seedlings as well as plastic or was that a typo? If there is fabric covering your containers than I don't see how they are going to germinate at all. Why would you have any of your seeds covered with fabric and then plastic? The temperature woo be controlled the same way as.the beds. I just open an end if they need venting. I don't understand how this idea would work to control the temps in your covered containers. You have already increased the temps of the soil by putting them in covered containers. Adding extra plastic covering under a tent and possibly fabric as well, increases the temps for sure, but just lifting fabric will not do much to decrease the temps in those containers very quickly. Containers heat up rapidly without much effort when covered. Adding all this extra covering will no doubt cook seedlings, possibly rot the seeds from fungus before they have a chance to germinate and sure will not help with a mass excess of condensation that would occur, far more than is normally expected in the containers. when temps get too warm with the containers just exposed to the elements, as we normally do with WS, we need to open the containers so that seedlings and plants don't cook in the heat, or move them out of the direct sun they may be in, or let some of the excess condensation evaporate. Having them all under some kind of covered raised bed, as you have described, sounds like a heck of a lot of work in an attempt to gain a few weeks in seedling size and the end result may or may not make a difference in the long run. WS seedlings are super hardy, have super strong and large root structures that are not seen on any kind of plants that are forced germinated under lights vs letting mother nature do the work for you. You sound like you are trying to combine both ideas into one and do it outdoors, but what you are describing is more of an artificial forced germination vs letting mother nature do the job for you and hence you may not get the results that the rest of us get with WS. What you could do, and I think would be a really good idea to determine how well your idea will work is to sow some of the seeds as you have described and some of them as we normally would WS the seeds. Then come fall you can compare the results and decide which way works better, if one way did work better for you than the other or if there was no difference. But, as Trudi said, WS is supposed to be easy, and you are describing an awful lot of work to me as well. Fran

I have had no need to give roses winter protection, but I do need to protect some small young citrus trees, and the methodology might transfer. I bought a roll of concrete reinforcing wire, cut pieces of it that would roll around into circles large enough to go around the trees (usually about 12' of wire), then I cut off the bottom rung of the wire which gives me 6" pieces of sturdy wire that will push down into the ground. And then around that frame I put some of that light white fabric that the sell at the nursery for -- ta da "frost protection". In my case I also ran a set of Christmas lights under the bottom and around the trees to add just the slightest bit of warmth, so I have some funny looking white short towers around the property, but....hopefully I will still have some citrus. The concrete reinforcing wire has been my go-to material for lots of things: arbors, tomato cages, trellises. It is worth it's considerable weight in usefulness.

One of the benefits of living where I do on the coast is our slow cool down in the fall and slow warm up in the spring. We have a fairly mild, mostly snow free winter so it's common to have things like camelias , winter jasmine and early crocuses blooming all throughout winter. But starting in mid March, we're influenced by the cold ocean temps. When DC, Wilmington and Philly are starting to see temps in the upper 60s to mid 70s in March and April, we're frequently stuck in the 50s, sometimes with chilly ocean fog or wind. While that doesn't bother the daffodils, tulips and flowering trees, those temps keep tender plants from sprouting. So IF there is a freeze or frost then, it seldom bothers anything. I remember Will in Winston-Salem has a bad freeze in spring after his cannas, bananas and EE's took a big hit. That just doesn't happen here really because that stuff is still asleep. Castor bean seeds won't sprout until its warm enough. They often come up from seeds that dropped last year.

Jackie that's crazy that you had 8 straight days of rain! We both live in the Bay Area... but in my neck of the woods we only got about 2 good rainy days. Now there's no rain scheduled for at least the next 2 weeks. Sigh. Kelly I swear by mulch mulch mulch and more mulch for both winter and summer in my climate. But be careful with your sources. I'm not sure, but I think the grub problem I recently have been dealing with may be in part from the "free" mulch I got from tree trimmers in the area. Sometimes they trim healthy trees, but often they are cutting down unhealthy trees infested with things like beetles. You could probabaly feel safe using free mulch if you also used a systemic soil killer for grubs underneath (poisonous and not so great for invertebrates though) or predator nematodes (I bought mine through Natures Control and think they would have worked better if I applied them BEFORE the grubs hatched and took over). In the end, it may be cheaper to buy mulch instead of using free mulch and treating it. Just my opinion from my recent grub infestation though. I used free mulch before this year and never had any problems until now... so who knows!