Well, this is very interesting. Albert, you are so lucky to have had such a gardening heritage given to you. It sounds like the method your grandmother used, is like the method Trudi reports too. I find it fascinating to learn of the 'old ways' of doing things. Just my personal opinion, but I suspect that too often lots of valuable information and experiences have been lost along the way in the mad dash to advance technology. I suppose we have new problems now that we never had before too, though. Like the number of pathogens that can effect a plant. Trudi, I like that paper towel method, but I guess I would have to think that any method that could reduce pathogens, especially with tomatoes, might be the way to go. It always amazes me that pathogens transfer to the seeds themselves. Especially after drying them out, I would have thought a pathogen couldn't live under those conditions. You surprise me to say saving SunSugar could be worthwhile. I do follow your thinking about the process of selective evolution of tomato plants. I guess I have such a small garden with only 6 hours of sun maximum that my vegetable gardening efforts have morphed into less of a focus for me. If I had room to grow 10-20 tomato plants in full sun, I would find it a pleasure to attempt that kind of a process. I guess I could try to follow it, for a couple of years, anyway, with the space and number of plants I can do, because as you suggest, it is to produce plants that thrive in my backyard conditions. I grew Sungold every year for the last five but they were out this year and I bought SunSugar. Now, if I had been saving Sungold seed all this time, well, I'd be well on my way to having that dependable tomato plant. :-) Thanks....

Check out this link; Trudi posted instructions -scroll down a little. Tomato seed saving PV

Carolyn ,does the fermentation method destroy all pathogens ? If so is this due to the long soaking ? You stated above "only hot water treatment can be used for the bacteria" which isn't used in the fermentation method .So please explain. Would the clorine method be more effect with a longer soak time ? What diseases can these pathogens cause ? ***** No, fermentation does not remove all pathogens as I think I said above when I said that it lessened the amount on the seed coat and since infection is a quantitative process it means a lesser chance of passing on certain seed borne pathogens. Above I said that all bacterial and viral pathogens, to date, have been found in the endosperm of the seed and that's the interior part of the seed so they are not removed by any method except the specialized hot water treatment. I can't answer the question about a longer soak time with chlorine being more effective since I don't know any data available to say which pathogens can be lessened and how effective, so there's no baseline to go from. Which diseases can these pathogens cause? I don't know how to answer your question b/c I don't know which pathogens you're referring to. ( smile) In WI where you live the most prevalent tomato diseases are the foliage diseases and the four major ones are Early Blight ( A. solani), Septoria Leaf Spot, Bacterial Speck and Bacterial Spot, but the first two are fungal and I do know that Dr. Dillard's results showed that those two fungal ones were lessened with Fermentation. You also can have occasional Verticillium, but rarely Fusarium, and I do know that Fusarium is lessened on the seed coat but can't remember if Verticillium is but would assume so. The long ago words about what fermentation could accomplish are as follows, but the data that came later proved some of them to not be true. Helps remove the gel on the seeds; very true, so you end up with fluffy seeds the same as you'd buy. Inactivates seed borne pathogens; later data has indicated which ones The acid conditions of the fermentation kill viruses; not true since those viruses tested to date are not on the seed coat. Commercial seed producers often TSP to treat their seeds b'c it's known that TSP can destroy TMV ( Tobacco Mosaic Virus), but don't ask me how b'c I don't know. LOL TSP treated seeds are pretty easy to ID b'c the seeds are smaller than normal, not fuzzy, and much darker in color. The mold that forms on atop the the fermentation has fungi that produce antibiotics that can kill or lessen any bacterial pathogens; not true b'c as said above, those bacterial pathogens tested to date, and that's not ALL of them, are in the endosperm of the seed. Hope that helps. Carolyn, who also thinks that many home growers as well as many of the smaller seed companies who sell tomato seed, and many of them produce their own seed although some subcontract out and some buy wholesale off the shelf ro a combo of those methods, use fermentation b'c they don't want to use anything other than the natural means that the tomatoes do themselves as to dropped fruits leading to more of the same kind, all a part of the natural life cycle of the tomato. And I forgot to mention that both TSP and actual acids are two other ways that commercial seed producers produce their seed. Lots of info on the net about that.

thats interesting, i have never seen any similar type instructions, recommending using any cleaners. i ferment my tomato seeds, actually i started doing it more the last few years. sometimes i dont do it when i am pressed for time, although its not that hard, and its fast... sometimes i just dont and get lazy! and actually i always get good germination even if i skip this step, but they dont always get as clean without the fermenting, and then i get paranoid they might go bad. so far that hasnt happened, but i like how nice and clean they come out with just a brief fermentation. and i got convinced this also prevents potential problems with the resulting seedlings, is my understanding of why its important. it sounds a little bit counter intuitive, but i think it is true. the fermented seeds are more disease resistant, get really really clean, and are the most viable. but lately i have been doing it with all of my tomatoes, as well i have been fermenting any berry seeds, and also melons and cucumbers too. i have a theory about fruit seeds, that fermenting is the way to go with anything sweet and fruity,theres a good reason basically why the plant/tree encases the seeds inside something that will naturally ferment, which removes the germination inhibitors through the fermenting, and makes the resulting plant stronger. there are some seeds (like berries) that are reallu nearly impossible to start...where most berries have a strong coating of germination inhibitors is part of why they are so hard. i also tend to think, for fruit and other things where the seed is encased in organic matter, that quite possibly the best seeds would not be very clean, but have some of the fruit still left on them...because of the fermenting process that will happen when you plant. this is much different than grains or veggies or herbs seeds, which you can dry and store simply for years...fruit are really tough to start. and i think part of it is that people clean their seeds too much to look just so, which IMO (and just my own theory) a funky looking fruit seed with a little dried fruit clinging to it, would look weird and be way more viable. with the berry seeds...if one can go right from the fruit into a bowl to ferment, fermented for longer than tomatoes, and then planted, i believe this gives them the best shot to grow, be disease resistant (the fermenting process destroys pathogens so i have read), and have that resistant germination inhibitor fermented off....