Hi Calliope, I know what you mean, but those plants that can be planted before frost date usually can take frost easily. My nasturtiums, e.g. went through a few snow falls last year with their beautiful leaves and flowers before they finally yielded. I agree that one must know his area well and know how to estimate (though we cannot be 100% accurate). For some annuals, I wait 2 weeks after our formal frost dates, then check the forecast for the next 10 days, and if it looks good I can plant them. For tender annuals, I might wait a little longer or start indoor. For half-hardy or hardy annuals, I can start earlier.

presuming you have packaged seed.. read the package.. if it says 90 days to bloom ... that means your first bloom would be around 9/10 ... then ask.. when is your first frost ... if you are in the north ... if its 10/1 ... whats the use .... then you have all the issues of intense summer heat on small seedlings... if you are doing this in the ground .... and then the intensity of summer sun versus spring sun ... and whether they will burn to a crisp .... can it be done.. probably.. give it a try.. i learned more experimenting.. than i ever got from a book or the web .... and i tend to remember experiments longer than something i read ... but i wouldnt get too wound up in it all ... depending.. again.. where you are in IL now.. if your seeds will bloom in 30 to 45 days.. its another game altogether ... the final thought is whether the seeds will be properly stored over winter.. and viable for proper planting time next spring .... or whether you will remember to do it then .. lol ... aw.. what the heck.. wing it.. just do it.. report back .... ken

It would be nice if some others would post some pics and updates on their seedling "stuff". I will post some pics of some other seedling trees I have growing here. I have lots of space so there are various seedlings of peach, plum apricot, apple etc. A good number produce fantastic fruit while others not so fantastic, but in any event they have proven to be hardy here so they get to stay:) I encourage anyone with the room and patience to grow some seed out.....you may stumble on a real gem! I posted a link of a thread from a couple of years ago. They produced some fantastic fruit again last year and hoping for some again this year. It was a real test winter this year, really long cold then big warm up then really cold .......still really cold now! http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fruit/msg0820041119336.html

I've been looking at HD ad Lowe's and reading up on different lights. there's a Philips 2 ft T12 "Natural Light" bulb that is 9,000 lumens and 5000k. Though I can't seem to find a really cheap fixture. There's a single light fixture for $13.98. Would only one of these bulbs work? I've got about 18 tomatoes and 10 peppers. How many lumens would I need for all these seedlings? Theres a Metalux fixture for $18 that holds two T8 bulbs and I could get two T8 bulbs that are 1,400 lumens and 3000k or 1,275 lumens and 6500k. There's also 4ft lights that I could actually get cheaper (fixture as low as $13 and 2 pack bulbs for less than $10 - those bulbs up to 2,900 lumens and 6500k), but I'm not sure about being able to dedicate 4 feet of horizontal space. But I know the light should be right over the seedlings so I might not have a choice?? How many bulbs do you think I need for the amount of seedlings I'm starting? Sorry about all the technical specifics on the lights. I know that the higher kevlin the better for seedlings so if I could get a better idea on the amount of lumens I'd need and how many bulbs (considering that people say that should be right over the seedlings) then I think I could know what's best to choose.