Well, since you think it might be a type of lacebug, how about one that is very commonly found on sunflowers? There are many kinds of lacebugs, found on ALL kinds of plants. Many of them are quite species specific as to their host plant, but they all tend to look quite a bit alike.

If what you've observed is a lacebug, then it's likely the one in the attached link. What do you think?

Here is a link that might be useful: lacebug

"how about one that is very commonly found on sunflowers?"--- now there's a concept. :)

i tend to use my field guide, which is why i only found one lacebug. sorry!

i see also that they feed on tomato. i should probably check it then, but i haven't noticed. also, the tomato is so tall, if straightened out it would reach the top of my giant grey stripes. well, since it isn't supported it leans on one of the sunflowers so i am sure they will skip on over there with bells on. however, i don't seem to have many.

what caught my attention, (actually, i am short enough that i can see under these huge leaves and bending over i don't want stuff in my hair so i look up) were the curved edges of the leaves like an aphid "sign" and the presence of black ants. then, i saw these fuzzies crawling around or not. do lacebugs secrete a honeydew, as well. i can't remember where i read it, but there are others besides aphids. hmmmmm.

rather than spraying, i have left things alone since things seem otherwise healthy. huge flower heads are weighing down the "trunk." found a wayfaring lady bug by the house last night, so i took it over to one of the leaves in question. must have found things to its liking b/c it stopped moving and stayed there. hopefully, it had a nice meal or two or three.

apparantly, i am chatty today. i can't really tell by black and white drawings, but i am sure you are right. i just read that these also cause leaves to curl.

I'm growing the same tall sunflowers (at least 8 feet tall right now) and I've had bunches of ants on mine, too. I examined the groupings of ants, looking for aphids, but didn't find any. In fact, I've discovered no reason why the ants would be attracted to the sunflowers in such numbers. Besides a few honey bees, a couple of caterpillars, some spiders that have taken up residence in the flower heads, and the ants, I've seen no other critters on my sunflowers. But the lower leaves look damaged, like something other than caterpillars has been dining on them. Oh well..as you said, they look healthy otherwise. The flower heads are so big that their stalks can't hold them upright anymore. Just a funny coincidence regarding the ants I suppose. I haven't noticed any of the fuzzy things on mine, which you described. I don't think ants tend lacewings, do they?

Renee

Ants may be up in the sunflowers taking advantage of nectar or any tasty tidbits left over by the assorted insects. Lacebugs are sucking insects, but don't produce the copious amounts of excretions that we call 'honeydew'. Lacebugs aren't related to those honeydew producing insects, but are 'true bugs' like stinkbugs! I don't see any reason why the ants wouldn't be interested in their droppings, however. I expect the lacebugs, which are more mobile than aphids, wouldn't take much to the herding concept. It IS sort of funny to imagine, though.

The honeydew excreting insects are: scale insects, whitefly, and to a lesser extent, mealybugs. Leafhoppers and their kin also produce a great deal of sugar excretions, but it is not as concentrated as those others. These insects are all related to each other.

FairyToadmother, you are VERY observant and are getting DARNED good at using your field guide! The next step after the field guide (which you should never put down) is to use the computer to finesse your identification.

Bugology 101 is over for today!!!!

why thank you, rhizo. as a matter of fact, if my field guide isn't next to my chair or in my hand, it is in my car! (along with the wildflower field guide and tree field guide). i am working on the cpu part and the field guide definitely gives me a place to start looking on the "net." pun not intended, really.

now for the lightbulb" AH-HA! whiteflies! i have those, and had forgotten that part about secretions. thanks for the reminder! perhaps that is what attracted the ants.

" I expect the lacebugs, which are more mobile than aphids, wouldn't take much to the herding concept. It IS sort of funny to imagine, though. "--- got my motion picture imagination going!

rivers, i have an intersting observation on sunflowers. those that i planted early have very thick, what i call, "trunks." i have 3 others i planted across the garden, not as far as it sounds, approx. 3-4 weeks later. they aren't as tall or thick, but they are blooming at the same time as the larger ones planted earlier. same seed. do you think weather patterns have something to do with this? i was afraid they wouldn't mature but they are. or, perhaps there is that much difference in the soil.

fairy toadmother ~ my sunflowers were all started from seed at the same time, in roughly the same location. They get the same amount of sun and they've experienced the same weather conditions at the same time. I haven't noticed a difference with regard to stalk thickness and drooping flower heads. The heads are drooping on plants with thick stalks as well as on thinner-stalked plants. And the most upright plant I have actually has a rather thin stalk - it isn't leaning at all.

I was afraid mine wouldn't mature, either. We had a severe thunderstorm which wiped out my earlier seedlings. The plants that I have blooming now were planted out fairly late. I don't even like sunflowers, but my 5yr. old son was intrigued by the idea of seeing such an enormous flower. It all started one day with a discussion about eating sunflower seeds and where the seeds come from. I casually mentioned that the flowers which produce those tasty seeds get really big. I believe he thought I was exaggerating. Sooo, being the indulgent mom, I planted some for him. And now that he has been appropriately awed and amazed ("oh man! they're even bigger than daddy!") by their towering height and enormous flowers, their time in my garden will soon be over. I can't wait to rip the ugly things outta the ground. It isn't the flower which I find unappealing, but the foliage tends to get really ratty - I foolishly planted them in front of the house, so the foliage is an eye-sore. If ever I plant them again, it'll be against the fence in the backyard where the foliage won't matter so much.

[ end novella ] ; )

Renee

"[ end novella ] ; ) "--- l like that!

now for the truth: i do not like sunflowers, either. i can do all kinds of psychoanalysis here. "they" say that when you lose someone, you begin to take on "tastes" of that person even though you didn't like something before. enter sunflowers. my X liked them, i did not. i am the one that split and very soon started growing sunflowers. i am determined that i grow them for the squirrels. i planned to do it anyway even though i don't like the foliage and wanted nothing to do with the ugly things. hmmmm.
i have now grown them every year for 5-6 years in the veggie garden starting with the multiflowered. after the first year, i learned how much the bumblebees love them. gotta keep em now, if nothing else but for the bees. THEN, i found a craft project that uses the dried head (whole) of a giant grey stripe. it is a sunflower basket. this is right up my sister's alley and my bird feeding aunt. so, now i will grow no others but giants. i did save one back to hang from the clothes line in winter for chickadees and squirrels.

now, for next year, i am going to try a different variety b/c the foliage is more dense. it is an experiment. perhaps you might try mexican sunflower, tithonia. also, it didn't work for me, but i found a suggestion to seed cardinal climber vine to train up the sunflower. my suns didn't grow fast enough for the vine to train on. i could try seeding one later in the year once the suns are more mature.

view Sunflower : Little Doritt F1 Hybrid , you will need to scroll down on the page. it kindof reminds me of the plant in little shop of horrors. perhaps that will be my pet name for it.

Here is a link that might be useful: sunflowers, thompson and morgan

todays observations:

i do believe these ants are trying to herd! and, they walk around them feeling them with their antennae. also present, "skins" split open in the back where the next stage emerged. i have also found another creature on the same leaf. i am currently trying to id it, but it reminds me of a stegasaurus in the 2 "plates" on it anterior dorsal side. one of these was fully white (nymph ready to shed, i am thinking). they are quite larger than the original "lacebug."

i will post again if i figure it out!

hmmm, my memory is failing since early this afternoon. next to that magnifying glass, i need a macro lense on a good camera.

possibilities:

no orange, but- http://mamba.bio.uci.edu/~pjbryant/biodiv/hemipt/KeeledTreehopper.htm
i din't see any of the humpbacked green adults, but that yellow larvae molting pic is similar to the white one i saw. no skin around it, though there was quite a bit elsewhere on the leaf.

this one also reminds me of it, with a closer "stegasaurus look":
http://bugguide.net/node/view/27354

after refreshing my memory. i think this one is it. it is the closest i could find anyway.

Here is a link that might be useful: treehopper at bugguide.net

yesterday's observation: when i moved the ladybeetle to my sunflowers, the ant attacked, using its body like it was stinging.
do ants have "stingers" other than fire ants? well, it worked b/c the ladybeetle flew away during its attack. guess it won't be eating my treehoppers.

Worker ants have stingers. To observe this in action, you should stick your hand into the nearest ant mound and see what happens!! (Just kidding.....trust me on this!)

thank you , rhizo, and thank you for utilizing my gullible nature :) lol!

Quote: fairy toadmother
[ view Sunflower : Little Doritt F1 Hybrid , you will need to scroll down on the page. it kindof reminds me of the plant in little shop of horrors. perhaps that will be my pet name for it. ]

ROFL!! That cracked me up, because that's EXACTLY what I thought when I took a pic. of one of my sunflowers, before the flower head had completely opened. The thought that popped into my head was "FEED ME!" LOLOL.

This is it.

{{gwi:1186900}}

Here is another shot. I had to aim the camera UP because the flowers were well above my head. The seed packet simply said "Giant Annual Sunflower". And they were giants...that packet didn't lie. I ripped them all out several days ago..they're on the compost heap now.

{{gwi:1186901}}

And I looked at the sunflower in your link - it is rather creepy looking and you've chosen an appropriate "pet" name for the thing. LOL.

Btw, I noticed that loads of bees were attracted to my sunflowers, too. But my bees were the little honey bees. The fat bumbles didn't seem to care for them...they prefer the flowers on my basil over anything else in my garden. *shrug*

Renee

lol!! from now on, renee, we shall call you "seymore." :) it does look like jaw and teeth structure.
i haven't noticed many bumbles on my giant grey stripes. the early blooming ones, small blooms several to a plant, seem to attract them the most. also, i have some unknown ugly weedy thing tht the bumbles love. probably 15 on it at at time and prone to distraction! this is the only thing that saves that monster.
i had to take a picture of my giant grey stripes b/c i finally got them HUGE, been trying for 4 years (despite the creatures on them attempting to suck out their life- little shop of horrors role reversal.)

sunflwer stalks would break down better if you have some way of chipping it. i broke last years up and they are still hard as a baseball bat. this years looks like i can use them for lumber, or at least bamboo!

i'm not crazy! (what a relief). i found another stegasaurus grower :)

Here is a link that might be useful: insects forum

i just wanted to post a pic of my sunflowers. as you can see, the critters didn't affect their growth!

{{gwi:168206}}

the largest ones are those closest to the shed.

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