Wanna peek at my list and see if I have anything you want to trade for? thanks flower bud, Sharon

Thanks for the responses! I had considered rotatilling the area once the plants were removed but a friend of mine said that is the worst thing I can do... I do want to put grass in there this year so I want to be careful with any chemicals. I also have a German Shepherd puppy who likes to eat dirt... I do like the idea of putting a tarp down for a bit and frying those roots lol...The puppy might shred it to heck but it is worth a try. I would like to plant the grass seeds late summer/early fall. CMK I hear you on digging these things up every year. I swear they are the plant from hell in my growing conditions. I also planted two varities...Miss Manners I managed to pull out and get rid of quickly, it is the other one that has spread like a rash! Herblady, that is nice that you were able to "donate" your monsters to the park. Given lots of room they will have a ball and are pretty to look at...not so when they take over a bed though :( I KNEW they had this ability but nothing in my yard ever spreads or becomes invasive except this and Joe Pye Weed which I am also planning to pull this year. That is a toughie, the roots are like steel!

bumping down

In IL my obedient plants grew well enough, but they were in more shade than they wanted so didn't get out of hand. Down here I have friends in ATX who can grow them but I've planted and lost Physotegia a few times - guess too much shade and tree roots coming in under the fences from every side keeps them from living, let alone spreading. On the other hand, I don't want to give them a great spot that will turn them into monsters like Marti's! I heard a floral designer explain the obedient thing - it refers to the way you can sort of tweak and rotate the individual florets on the axis where they are spaced along the stem. That way you can make each floret face in the direction you want... useful for arrangements that are meant to be seen only from the front, rather than from all sides. A very minor piece of obedience, to my mind.