Your post sounds depressing. Well you had a good run in 2006, look forward to 2007. All kidding aside, no one said it was going to be easy growing palms in northern climes. We have to keep our eye on the temperature forecast and do whats best for the palms for their long term growth and health. Heres an idea, why don't you start looking for some old windows or glass doors and turn your red shed into a greenhouse to overwinter your plams in. Pretty good idea, don't you think?

2006 was my first year growing palms outdoors and it seems to me like Chicago has been a great summer place to do so. The humidity and heat was great for the palms, even though it was disgusting for us. We hit a dew point high of 82F on July 31 but also hit a 73F dew point just the other day as well. With the temps now dipping down to the mid to upper 50s at night, it's time I start ordering my greenhouse and supplies. I figure I still have another month and a half or so before the season's first expected frost, but who knows. Best to be prepared than they suffer long term damage right? Just think, next month at this time Andy we should be getting the low 40s at night...now that's a sad thought for the palms (but again feels great for us with the windows open!). Once Labor day hits, the temps start to fall extremely fast. We are already losing over 3 minutes of daylight each day so just imagine what this does to the temps.

On a bright note, I'm halfway wishing for the cooler temps to settle in not just for better outdoor enjoyment, but for the sheer fun of attempting to overwinter my palms this year. It's something I've been looking forward to all summer.

If you've ever seen the Three Stooges as plummers, dry wallers, or roofers then you've seen the level of my handy man skills LMAO. I would need to get a green house and even then I doubt I could keep it warm enough for coconuts or kings. I do have a spare bedroom that works just as well. 5x3 south facing window that floods it with sunlight all winter. The sun will bring the temp up to the mid 70s in winter and high 70s in fall/spring. It's just depressing to even have to think about bringing them in during the fist week of September. But as you say it's what's best for the plant and I haven't been taking care of some of these palms for 3 years to put them at risk now. In addition there's always the chance that September will rebound some and they will be able to come out for a couple of weeks. Good luck to all of us northern growers. Average high here SEP-1 is 78 and is 68 on Oct-1

Andy, why are you worring about temps in the 50's, I dont think this will hurt any of the palms you have. I dont start moving mine until I get into the low 40's and upper 30's, then I start to scream.

And it seems like every year, I want to do things better than the last year, well, every year I wait and wait until the last minute, and I still end up loading the greenhouse at 11PM when I hear its going to be a freeze or something in the low 30's. Never fails. LOL Even us palm growers in the south have limits. ;-)

The palms will still grow until the real cold sets in for you all in late September. Michigan and the north in general have such a short summer, but when it is still in the 80s in October and humid, one often wonders when the fall will really come to the South. No worries on the palms.

Quick fix greenhouse,and inexpensive too!
Cattle panels,3ft wide and 11ft long,made out of 9gauge wire.
Cut them to the length needed just to cover the palm and a foot over top of palm,cover with greenhouse plastic,can always lift one side when temps get too warm to leave covered.
Put in a lightbulb,painted black,for the nites drop down below
freezing,cattle panels here are 15 bucks,greenhouse plastic around 25 bucks,Light bulbs a dollar!
What you say!!!!

I agree with Orchiddude, why are you worrying? The palms you have won't stall out and stop growing overnight with temps in the 50's. Perhaps some of the really, REALLY tropical palms would do that, but yours should be fine. Do you really believe it never gets into the 30's and 40's for extended periods in South Florida? And in Southern California, where a lot of these palms also grow, they have YEAR ROUND colder temps at night than South Florida EVER sees, even if they don't always have frost.

I think there's a lot of misinformation that circulates about tropical plants and cold hardiness in general. Take bananas, for instance. I read somewhere once in a reference book on tropical plants that "bananas will stop growing and go dormant when night time temps drop below 50F".

That's cr*p. Simply does not happen. If we have what I characterize as a "really cold" winter (that's a winter where we have long stretches of high 30's and low 40's for lows during mid-December through January and into early February), WITH or WITHOUT frost/hard freeze, my bananas never quit growing. They push out new leaves all winter long, and many still bloom and set fruit. I have hands of bananas on 2 Raja Puri, 1 Sikkimensis and 4 Basjoo (even though inedible on Basjoo) right now. The only thing that even phases them a LITTLE is a hard freeze to the low to mid-20's. Then they lose all their leaves, but if it warms up to the high 40's low 50's for a week, they start to push out new leaves.

Your palms would probably be a lot better off in the long run if you hardened them off a little by letting them experience some less than optimal nighttime lows into the low 40's and into the 50's. They would be more likely to survive a "surprise" cold snap if they accidentally got left out in a situation beyond your control someday then. That's still a zone 11 climate! You need to put this into perspective. And please don't say I don't know what I am talking about because I am from FL. I have experimented with tons of tropical plants in my non-tropical climate over the past 15+ years, and while I am not an expert on palms or any other plants, I know that you are kind of worrying needlessly on this issue

I think everyone is misunderstanding me. I know lows in the 50s are not going to hurt any of my palms. Having said that a high of 72 and low of 55 is not going to stimulate any growth in aking or a coconut. I can extend the summer growing season by moving them in where they will get plenty of afternoon sun and have the window bring the temp up to 80 and more importantly being inside the overnight temp will be high 60s. Believe me with coconuts you can see daily growth in the summer. I am seeing nothing now. We may be still in summer but it is cleary fall conditions up here right now. I can always take them back out if it warms up. Everything else will stay out. (Washys, Sabals, and a needle). I kow they can take temps much lower.

well said bihai, written with such conviction and passion. Its kind of like raising kids the old fashioned way; make'm suffer a bit and they'll get stronger. I'm not sure where that analogy came from but it seemed right.

dbryal, what do you use for the light bulb paint that will not burn off. c9 bulbs get pretty hot. I would love to try bulbs if the light doesn't show.

Andy,
Maybe you should consider investing your time and energy into plants that are tropicalesque to you but still more cold tolerant. Use yuccas for example. They looks as tropical as palms, in my mind, and the party never ends for me as they stay out year round. I can enjoy my windmill all year minus three weeks or so. For my bananas and all frost tender plants, I've enjoyed them for the past two years into mid november. That may not be the case for you but the lake and heat island give chicago a real late growing season.
Anyways, maybe coconuts aren't gonna be the best thing for you.

I know this weather has been hard lately, but the sun is finally shining again. I have no doubt we will get into the 90s again, last sept we had a 5 day 90+ heat wave, and we neared it in mid october as well. You still have months of enjoyment left, just play your cards right.

Kyle

Chitown-
I appreciate the suggestions. I do plan on having some Yuccas next year. I do have a windmill in the ground as well as 4 Sabal Minor and Two Needle palms. I also have some potted Sabals which I will only bring in for a few months. I admire your optimism about 90s in September. I'm afraid I don't see it happening. Condidering they are saing a high of 68 on Saturday I would be estatic if we just had one last wave of low 80s later next month.

LOL andy...I know its hard living up north, and wanting tropical plants. Believe me, I understand. I live in the south and want tropical plants and still cant put them in the yard. Now thats bad. If I could get rid of the water storms down south, I would move there.

You grow that coco anyway you want too, I want to see that baby get big. Cause if you can grow one, I know I can.

Nucci60,try using the paint that you would use on barbacue
grills,made by rustoleum.
I remember as a kid my dad always kept a bulb burning in the pump house.to keep the well from freezing up,and it always worked.

Andyandy,

Are you more concerned about dormancy, lack of growth or cold damage? I have a King Palm about 2 years old, and have left it out on several nights when the temps dropped well into the low 40's with no ill effects. It's not very big, but it's healthy : ) If it goes into the 30's, it comes inside.

On the other hand, I sort of feel your pain. As soon as soon as I see the temps start dropping into the 50's, I know it won't be long before I have to get everything inside. Winter comes so much sooner for you guys.

I want these to keep growing as long as possible. We're still getting summer sun and I want to take advantage of that. I cant do that when they're projecting highs in the high 60s. That's ten degrees below normal for up here.

high 80's here with lows in mid 60's, almost perfect weather. Sunny with a cool breeze, low humidity. What a life. :-)

Well yesterday marked the last day of the year we should average a high of 80 degrees. But just think, exactly 1 month ago today we were all sweltering in 99 degree heat with 82F dew points. Don't ya miss that? :-P

I do, I'd rather that than the cloudy 67 they're forcasting for Saturday and Sunday.

Well, I have been taking plants in the last couple of days, but not because of the temperature. We're averaging over 8 inches above normal precip after a very wet July, then we had a mostly dry August until last Thursday and it's been raining since then. Now I hear we are going to get up to 8 inches of rain on Saturday. Mushrooms are growing in the front lawn and my Australian tree fern has never been so big (pushing to six feet now). But I am concerned about the contant moisture on many of the palms so I brought in many (especially those from semiarid regions). I find my palms do very, very well under supplemental flourescent light anyway, and it does allow me to control moisture. Still, I will keep the others out (Sabals, Trachycarpus, Chaemerops, Coco, Phoenix, Bismarkia, Syagrus, and Washingtonia) outside for a while now. With the exception of the coco, I don't make room for these guys until after Thanksgiving.) One of the advantages of living along a coastline is that first frosts are very late. (I have seen impacients and geraniums blooming here in December.) Weather will probably be beautiful after T.S. Ernesto moves through and it's supposed to be in the low 80's (which is warm enough for me--and warm enough for most of the palms). I hope everyone has a great Labor Day weekend whatever the weather. Get ready for the flood Northeast coast. Peace.

Njoaisis-
Good luck with Ernesto, I'm a Weather Channel junky and have a 60inch TV so I get the visual aspect of it to some extent. Maybe after the weather clears you can take everything back out and take some pictures for us we would all love to see your collection. I started this thread and am taking a more positive attitude. Yes it's been 5-10 degrees below normal here for a while (as is the 7 day forcast) but when I think of what it could be like in 3 months it's not that bad. Last year it was 13 on Thanksgiving and that's only 3 and a half months away. It's about 69 out right now and while it feels cool (would have been heaven in May) I can still go outside barefoot with no shirt on and be comfortable. Last night was 60 and today sunny and 74. My two coconut seedlings (one green dwarf and one pacific tall) pushed up their spears a half an inch in 24 hours. My older tall 3/4 of an inch. For everyone who is on this thread who tried to kick me in the rear you were right. I have seen the light. It's 70 and I'm loving it. (PS the king palm seedling is back outside)

Andy,
I can definately relate to your "spoiledness" as to me this weather isnt too enjoyable. Yet 70 in late winter would be a blessing and a half. The psychological games that this climate plays on me is the reason why hopefully I will be living in Phoenix in less than a year.

Kyle

Andy, I REALLY enjoy your posts, so PLEASE PLEASE do not take this the wrong way. I am just saying my 2 cents worth.
I live Kansas, in Zone 5. I bought a coconut and loved it. I bought it in late June. I bought it on an impulse buying while I was shopping at Lowe's and saw it and thought I HAD to have it.
However when I got home I started to read up on it and noticed that it just wouldn't make it in Zone 5 even indoors with it's heat and light requirements.
While I had it, it put out two new sets of leaves. But I had to come to terms and think about the winter. I took it back a week or so ago and exchanged it for a another Robusta because I had heard of three differnt folks that have wintered a Robusta outdoors in Zone 5.
We have to come to terms that there are just some palms that wont make it in the house for 8 months out of 12. It's hard, but we have to face reality.
For me, I just asked myself a simple question, do I want to spend my time and a lot of money and still have the tree inside for 8 months and have it probably not live, or do I buy a tree that I can have fun with and plant it outside and use minimum money on winterizing and can be outside 12 months.
Again, don't take this the wrong way, I am just saying my advice.

Well let's try this agian. I just spent 10 minutes responding only to have it wiped out be an error message. I do not take offence at all. I have read all of the failed attempts on the forum but I have also read several success stories (one person has been growing their dwarf in Chicago for 11 years). When I think about it logically I don't see why it cant be done (until it gets too big). My coconut soaks in full sun all winter and has a steady climate of 69-75 (69 when overcast 75 when sunny). I keep a fan on it 10 hours a day, I mist it a couple of times a day) These are ideal winter conditions for it. Even in Southern Florida they have stretches in the winter where it only gets into the 60s during the day and falls into the 40s at night). I've had my older tall for 17 months now and 8 of those were inside. It has never once gone dormant even in the middle of winter and it's been overcast for 10 days strait. It contiued to show daily growth. I have a palm that was 10 inches 17 months ago and is now 4 feet. I've paid real money for 4 foot palms in the past. It's human nature to want to do what can't be done. I'm not saying it's easy. I dragged that thing outside whenever the temperature would allow. I had all of my palms outside last Febryary for a couple of hours one night when it was raining and 59 out. Until I see with my own eyes it can't be done I'll keep going. When I see the rate of growth and know that next summer I'll have a six foot fully feathered tall, a four foot starting to feather tall, and a 3 foot starting to feather green dwarf it's pretty exiting. If I fail I'll eat crow but if it didn't die last winter I don't know why it would this winter. It's bigger and has more roots. My undersatnading is the older and bigger a palm gets the more hardy they get. Even now in these past few days when it has only averaged about 65 (high + low/2) not highs of 65 they continue to grow. They'd speed up if I brought them inside but I've decided their's no need now. Again, no offence taken at all. I will continue to try and show that it can be done.

be cool,
Andy