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Pruning Floppy Limb

pappy
18 years ago

Last fall I acquired a 6' tall Jacquiline that came shipped bare root and defoliated (because of California's strict ag laws). I figured that was O.K. because I was putting it in the ground at a natural time for it to go dormant.

It survived the winter just fine, no black tip, etc. however this has been our wettest winter on record. Now one of the branches (about 6" long) has flopped over. Rest of the 16 ends are fine. Figure I'll have to prune that one off but is there anything more sinister at work here that I should be taking care of?

Comments (17)

  • mikeod
    18 years ago

    If that branch is soft, squishy and discoloring from the tip down, I would get it off ASAP. It may be rotting. That could spread to the entire plant. I would apply a fungicide to the main plant where you cut the branch off.

    I can't think of anything else that would do that to one tip and not affect the others. Since it has so many tips, losing one should not affect the symmetry of the tree.

    I'm sure others will chime in with more advice.

    Good luck
    Mike

  • tdogdad
    18 years ago

    Again Mike is right on. Cut down the limb until you see no brown or black or you get to the intersection. Spray with fungicide, let dry, then cover the wound with common household Spackle. Keep and eye on the area below this for squishy, discoloration. I did not on a favorite Jeannie Moragne and ended up discovering it in time to have the entire 6 foot plant die. By then all efforts to save cuttings failed. Act quickly.

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  • pappy
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Spackle? Like for sheetrock? Very interesting.

    O.K., I'm gonna hop on this right now. Interesting point, though is that there's no discoloration on the branch. It just flopped over like someone sucked the water out of it. Rest of the branches seem fine.

  • pappy
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    So I ended up pruning off 3 tips, 6-8 inches back. The one that had flopped over and two others that weren't firm when I tested them. Funny that there was no discoloration.

    At the pruned point the cross sections showed a good, white pity center with a good pale green ring all the way around. On one prune the green ring had a slight discoloration in one quadrant which makes me think I should cut that branch back further (but I was already at a joint). Hard to tell if the discoloration was from the bypass pruner or perhaps indicative of disease.

    All three pruned tips exhibited rot in the squishy parts and broke open easily to display a core that looked almost exactly like dry rot wood you'd see in a leaky house.

    Sprayed all the tips with an antifungal and sealed the cut ends with exterior (mildew resistent) spackle. I hope this works, it's been terribly rainey in San Francisco this year.

  • tdogdad
    18 years ago

    Sounds like you got it just in the nick of time. A little brown usually will not pass beyond the intersectiuon and the spackle will discourage the fungus. I learned this from Bud Guillott one of the big names in plumies (Moragne, Little, Emerson, Guillott) If you want to see some amazing pictures of Bud's, go to plumerias.com and click on more pictures and then on Bud's favorites, You can see why I need a bib to catch the drool when i visit his yard. Also, Bud told me that Jim little is coming out with a book at the end of the month which I am dying to see his pictures since his collection must be a plumiaholic's dream.

    I am in So.Cal and I have had enough rain, but you guys in SF have been punished beyond fairness. Hope your plants survive. Watch the bases and if the plant looks weak, dig your finger into the ground down the stem and feel if the stem below the ground is squishy, which is root rot and requires a restart. Wet, soggy soil is a problem. If your plant is in the ground you might put plastic around to move the water away from the stem during rain. I gave some other planting hints on Apr 6 to "keep in pot or plant in ground."

  • frangipaniaz
    18 years ago

    I don't know how quick I'd put spackle on it... I mean, it isn't going to lose that much sap to suck the life out of the plant... I'm sure the plumeria farms in Hawaii don't use spackle and that's a humid environment... In my experience they scab nicely themselves and if you're desperate to stop the sap, use some soil... I'm sure it doesn't hurt the plants but I just wanted pappy to know that it's alright to not use it... they will heal and stop oozing on their own... sorry, I don't mean or want to offend anyone... just trying to add my two cents...
    Brittany

  • pappy
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    I went ahead and sealed the wound with spackle more to ward off any fungus getting in the fresh cut. You're right about the plumeria farms in Hawaii, I saw a big one on Molokai and they just whack away at them with no mercy and the trees do just fine. Odd too because their rainy season is every bit as bad as ours, just warmer.

    Anyway, Tdogdad, my little plumeria corner of the world survives because it sits on top of a 10' tall, old, pourous stone retaining wall so NORMALLY water drains straight away from the plantings. However this year has been beyond compare and it's had me worried about the roots. I also have a 7' tall Aztec Gold that has weathered the winter with no problems at all, but the Jacqueline doesn't look so happy. This little corner gets uncharacteristically (for San Francisco) blazing sun in the spring through the fall and no fog, but the winters are a real crap shoot.

    At the end of the season this year I may dig them up just to re-do the drainage under them so they're not at risk in a drenching year like this.

  • tdogdad
    18 years ago

    You are correct. Spackle only keeps the wound clean and is best put on after the wound stops oozing. the latex will stop bleeding in a few minutes. However, if left open, you can encourage splitting or fungus or beetles. Sealing over looks good and greatly cuts the future problems, I have many plants that I just hacked off and had no time to seal. However, those I have sealed are much cleaner and have fewer problems. Also, often the old hacked off limbs look rather dark and ugly. I prefer spackle to black pruning sprays because I can spot fungus easier and it blends better with the color of the plant. If you look at my pictures on" How tall will they get" posted Apr15 you can see many untreated cuts. I just have learned to do as much preventative steps to minimize losses or damage. Because I am dealing with over 400 plants, I do not have time to carefully inspect every plant often. Thus I try to be as careful as possible. And Brittany, I am not offended. I appreciate your knowledge and enthusiasm. We all are trying to help others not make our mistakes. Thanks for you thoughtfulness.

  • frangipaniaz
    18 years ago

    Oh good, after I wrote that I was thinking, hmm... they probably won't like that... I also live in a very hot and dry place and fungus is pretty much the last of my worries...
    Brittany

  • pappy
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Oh oh. This ain't lookin' good. After pruning the first three tips I went back a couple of days later and checked the other tips; you guessed it, more squishies (even though no black tip)! So I pruned those back to green/white wood, sprayed with Schultz's anti-fungal and sealed with spackle. Basically every tip on the tree has now been pruned.

    After a week of sunshine with only 2 lightly rainey days I check the Jacqueline again and ALL the pruned tips save two are squishy up to 6 inches behind the sealed cuts (yes I dipped the pruner in bleach between each cut).

    I checked below the soil and while the trunk is solid it will ooze water/sap with light finger pressure.

    Looks like this puppy is either a goner or is going to need a root restart too. Here's the thing, this plumie is nearly 6' tall and has a trunk diameter of 3-4". Can something this big be rooted? Is it the same process as rooting a cutting?

    Pappy

  • mikeod
    18 years ago

    Pappy,
    I agree it doesn't sound good. You did everything I would have done with the tips and the problem is progressing down the branches. If it were mine, I would pull it out of the pot, or ground if it is planted, and check the roots. Look for white, healthy roots. You may have a root problem that is causing the plant to die from lack of nutrition.

    If the trunk has clear wood, in my mind you have nothing to lose to try and treat it as a cutting.

    Hope someone else has other ideas. Good luck.
    Let us know what happens.
    Mike

  • frangipaniaz
    18 years ago

    In my experience you can root anything... just treat it as a cutting... give it plenty of support so it won't fall over... and be patient...I've found that the bigger ones take a little longer to root...
    Brittany

  • tdogdad
    18 years ago

    Mike is right on. Your next place to look is the roots because you did everything correct but the plant is spiraling downward. Unfortunately, sometimes all you do will not work. Brittany is correct, you can root anything that is extablished and not green wood. Sadly, from my experience, some plants at this point just have become too ill. I planted 15 upper cuttings from a spiraling Jeannie M. last year and only one is still deciding if it will make it or not. Don't give up but realize that this plant could be very sick and beyond the point of salvage. Mine was a root problem that I could not see and was over an inch below the surface. It is not common to have established plants go so quickly, and it is a heartache. I just hope you get lucky and find a way to save your plant.

  • pappy
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Arrrrrrrgh . . . well, got some good news/bad news update:

    The Jacqueline bought the farm. Despite frequent surgery it was a goner and is now just really expensive compost, good only for pushing up daisies :-P

    The Aztec Gold, on the other hand, has bounced back strongly and is now growing like a fiend. No inflos yet but lots of greenery. It had one tip that got black tip and I pruned it but all it's other tips stayed strong, despite the brutal rainy season and the poor thing spending probably 6 months with soggy roots. Tough little monkey that Aztec Gold. I'd heard they were one of the hardier plumies and now I believe.

  • mikeod
    17 years ago

    Pappy,
    Sorry to hear about the Jacqueline, but glad the Aztec Gold came through. I had a similar experience with a generic red that I rooted last summer. It did great last year and over the winter in the greenhouse. After I brought it out in the spring, it started several inflos and I thought it would be beautiful. But the prolonged chilly spring and rain resulted in dropping leaves. I thought it had recovered a bit, but yesterday I noticed the new leaves and claws had not developed any further in the last week or two, so I checked below the soil surface and the stem was soft. I pulled it out of the soil and the roots were brown. I started cutting it from the bottom up to see if I could find white wood, but the rot extended past the first branching and almost to the secondary branching. I wound up with about six small (12-14") cutting instead of one 5 foot plant. We'll see if the cutting will root. Reds have always been tough for me.
    Mike

  • pappy
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Yeah, it was bad roots that did in the Jacqueline. Despite me cutting the tips back to good wood they would always continue to rot. Turns out the thing was rotting from the roots up as well (I suppose that allows the rot to become more systemic than localized). Cutting the base off was to no avail as the root rot had, like your red, extended too far up the tree.

  • mikeod
    17 years ago

    Unfortunately, I had promised that red to a neighbor who takes care of our house and dog when we go away. She was so excited to get a large, red plumeria. I had to tell her today that it was gone. I have another, smaller, evaleone that is pink-red that I will give her instead.
    Mike

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