OK, looks like everyone is as busy as I am. Hate to let my sister down, as I said I would check this board every day, but alas, Tomorrow starts two (2) weeks of the state high stakes testing. The pressure and stress is sooooo heartbreaking. I teach 5th grade, I had 2 boys crying on Friday over something really insignificant, but you know it's the pressure of these D**** tests. They are so worried they wont be able to go to middle school with their friends. I've been in meetings all week signing my life away that I wont look at the test, etc. Now I have to turn in a seating chart of my testing environment, signing that they were 3 feet apart and not able to cheat. Sorry for rambling, but I really get angry, our politicians have forgotten these are children and not all children are college material. I'm going to give the next two (2) names, because this will really be a busy week.... first....triciae then... hostabuff thanks for letting me vent, hope everyone has a great week. It is starting to look like spring here, so the next couple of weeks should be great. Patty

kt, Glad to hear I'm not alone in my driving aversions. Yah know, ya can learn something about yourself every day. I never really thought about it, but scent _is_ important in my gardens. Maybe that's why I grow so many herbs? As for Roman chamomile, I think that in warmer climates it could be invasive. Mine usually dies back every year (although it stays green well into the winter) and comes up from the roots and a few seedlings around the mother plant. It has never spread out in to the rest of the garden. I kind of wish it would, because it would be a nice groundcover under the roses. The leaves themselves look very light and feathery. Hey, maybe I should buy some more..... I agree that the herb garden is rather full, even with some plants in pots on the wall and others in the walkway. But, I tell ya, working in that garden on a summer morning will be real multi-sensory pleasure. kt, if your design software is a no-show, I can take a crack at mapping out an herb garden in Excel based on these elements. I also have a house design package that I used for the additions this year. It has a garden function that I haven't used. It doesn't look to be optimized for curved/circular gardens, since it is primarily for foundation plantings, but I can give it a try over the holiday and see if I can produce something useful. Like you, I have my entire family coming up for our traditional New England Thanksgiving. My 82-year old parents, sister, brother-in-law, six kidlings from three to 18 and their dog, will be invading on Wednesday. On Sunday, when they all leave, I also have to head down to Newark Airport to fly to Brazil for a week long business trip. Yes, I plan to sleep for the entire flight down. So, if I disappear from the forum again for a few days, ya'll know why. Just in case anyone drops out before me to prepare for a similar invasion (that means you, kt), have a Happy Thanksgiving!!! narcnh (who snuck outside in his jammies while typing this just to crush and smell some Roman chamomile)

I missed the fact that it was my turn, possibly because I've been working on my glögg recipe for several days, trying to duplicate the one I remember from my Swedish grandmother's house at Christmas. There are so many completely different recipes that it's taking quite a toll on us to try them all. Burgundy or sherry? Port or brandy? Whiskey or vodka? I'd like to have it right by Christmas, but that means starting the testing earlier and earlier each day. What space do we have left? I'm wondering if we can try hardy kiwi in this locale; although they are hardy to -25, the buds can be blasted by late cold snaps. They might succeed with some shade to the east, which would potentially delay the formation of buds. They could be grown along the fence, with the grapes, but I'll defer to northern gardeners who know if this is unrealistic. Alternatively, if our virtual homeowners are really into fruit, they should probably have some "real" strawberries. They could be grown in a long narrow bed inside the fence (we still have a fence, even though George has banished the deer, don't we? Or, maybe we have enough fruit for this garden. Do we also need to talk about the materials we're going to use, like paving and mulch, and about how this area will relate to the rest of the yard? Is it going to evoke an old New England farm yard and orchard, or be a more formal space? Will we include flowers and grasses, or will it be strictly devoted to fruit? Can we have a table and some chairs out here, where we (um, I mean they) can sit and enjoy this garden?

You'll get something else. It will be close but not the same. I have not seen much variation for color with one exception (noted below) but I have seen variation for shape. I get three predominate shapes: (10:45 4/21 CST - I goofed in second picture and will change it by 12pm) The first type is a oblong cherry/plum. They can range in size of about ½-2 oz. Some have had pointed blossom ends like these and others dont. They will segregate for cracking - some do, some dont. The flavor is very good on all further lines I have (now at F4). The second type is a oblate large cherry/saladette. They are about 2 oz. Most of the interior is seed gel rather than "meat". Though they do taste pretty good - like a Black Cherry - I have not elected to pursue this type. Though this particular plant didn't. This is also the type I see the weird "spiral cracking" as opposed to radial (spider like) or concentric cracking [lines in a circle from the top ((( * ))) ]. Spiral cracking: The third type is a small beefsteak type. They range from about 4-6oz (a few got to 8oz). They have more to the interior and have excellent flavor. (I cut this a little too close to the top so more white core shows) The other things which have shown and should expect are some variation in striping (which fades) and yellow skin - which shows up randomly but often in more sun exposed fruit. Both of these traits come at least from Cherokee Purple (maybe Black Cherry too?). This "yellow skin" is curious because all the parents are clear skin. I suspect that Cherokee Purple must carry some kind of modifier gene which is switched on in certain crosses and/or environmental influences (light?heat?). Similar things have happened with CP crosses not involving Black Cherry. If you carefully pull the skin on a regular CP you can sometimes see some yellow skin at the stem end. So I suspect there might be some allele/modifier gene which regulates where and if this occurs further down the shoulders and sides of a fruit. So its possible that changes to the expression (like crossing) causes this to be expressed further down or all over the fruit maybe by some modifier genes. This could explain what I have seen in this cross and others and how Cherokee Chocolate possibly came about. I have also recovered all yellow skins from the Brandywine x Cherokee Purple cross when one of the brownish F2's was looked at by the F4.