Probably not lorabell. Maybe Josh(greenman) can give you more info.

But, I found this stuff at a regional local nursery chain last year that you can probably use right out of the bag -- maybe remove a very few pieces of sapwood, but screening wasn't really necessary. You'd still have to do the mixing ratios though. Ran about $10/2cf, but by the sounds of the prices of the stuff people get for $4/2cf and all the bark that ISN'T usable(too large and sometimes 50% of the bag), I prefer to use this stuff.

Kevin

Here is a link that might be useful: E.B. Stone/GreenAll Micro Bark

This post was edited by woohooman on Mon, Mar 4, 13 at 16:30

If you don't want to screen (which can be a PITA) see if you can find Pine Bark Mini-Nuggets. When I screen I get about 60% usable, and the big stuff isn't all that big. So you could just use it right out of the bag in a pinch. You'd still have to add the peat and perlite...

It was cold this weekend so I screened and mixed a new batch of 5:1:1 right on the garage floor with a shovel. Isn't this why we have garages?

Howdy!

I like the Greenall Micro Bark that Kevin linked...from what I've found, it provides the best value (of the products available in my area).

That said, there is a very good commercial soil available from Fafard's...but it's going to cost you. Also, I've never seen it locally, and that's probably true for most parts of the country. Still, I think it's worth mentioning, especially because the ingredients and ratios are so close to the 5-1-1.

Click the link, then scroll to the very bottom of the page. The "Nursery" mix has my endorsement.

Josh

Here is a link that might be useful: Fafard's Nursery Mix

Yes!

I like the 5-1-1, but if you cant get presiflted pine fines then it can be quite the work when filling large contianers.
I use a mix-Its just pine mini nuggets from lowes right out of the bag at 4 parts to 1 part potting soil. and some lime and micronutrients. Only use more parts of the pine, never less. So; 6 parts pine mini nuggets and 1 part potting soil would be fine. Plants grew like crazy, does not get any "lazier" than that! ;) Thanks to this sight,and Tapla I have found info about bark based media.

This post was edited by TheMasterGardener1 on Mon, Mar 4, 13 at 16:33

Regarding Josh's post. The closest Fafard product is probably Fafards52. I used that last year but it has much less of a bark content than the 5-1-1 mix calls for. But it works great for growing peppers. I did mix extra perlite and "Unsifted" pine bark into it to help with drainage and bring it closer to the 5-1-1. If you want out of the bag, close as possible to 5-1-1, you should probably look for an "Orchid Mix". Miracle Gro sells it in relatively small 8 qt bags for about $4 a bag. It would take 2.5 bags for a 5 gallon container. I use this stuff for starting my seeds. It is readily available at Walmarts and many other outlets.
I am going to try for a more traditional 5-1-1 this year if the source I found last year has it again this year....But, I too do not relish the idea of doing the sifting necessary.
Bruce

I agree with Bruce, the Orchid mix from MG works great. I mix MG orchid mix with MG Organic and throw in some perlite. But the orchid mix by its self works. I do not suggest this if you have lots of plants as it gets pricey.

Mark

TheMasterGardener1: Do you have a link to the mix-Its just pine mini nuggets? I could not find it on the Lowes web page.
Bruce

Its in the white bags with blue? lettering. It is 2 cuft for 4 bucks. Best source of pine bark I have found. Not much sapwood at all.

I was on this sight that talked about all the properties of container media and PWT. It said that a 4;1 bark potting mix is good.

I used it for a big cayenne bush a 5 gal and I know this mix is going right in my 7 gal containers for tomatoes this year

"Orchid Mix" is, indeed, a great barky medium...but as you guys mentioned, it'll be expensive to fill containers.

Bruce, if you look at the Nursery mix below the 52, you'll see that it has slightly less peat moss, and thus slightly more bark by volume. But you're right, the 52 has perlite (and vermiculite, unfortunately). Your addition of perlite and bark was exactly the thing to do.

Josh

Josh: Yes you are right about that Nursery Mix.

TheMasterGardener1: I still cannot find that product on the Lowe's web site no matter how I search. If you get the UPC or some additional info on it, let me know. Thanks.
Bruce

Bruce:

I keep looking for bark at MY Lowe's also and I've never seen anything that's worth getting. The only thing I ever see written on bags of bark at Lowe's says "contains forest products." That's not good enough for me... being that the recipe calls for CONIFER BARK.

Kevin

Hi Bruce I do know the bag he is talking about the Lowes and Home Depot carry it. It's Garden Pro brand Pine Bark mini nuggets. They do carry it but I can't find it on the website.

Garden PRO 2CF
PINE BARK MINI NUGGETS
Bag Color: Blue
UPC 740114220238

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Pro

Thanks habajolokia: I couldn't find it "garden pro pine bark" on lowes or HD web sites either by searching their web site. However, I punched it into google and it came up with a link on the Lowes site. It looks like they may have rebranded the product or something but it looks promising. I doesn't say so on the bag, but it is Garden Pro brand according to the web site.
Bruce

Garden Pro Pine Bark Fines at Lowes.com

Here is a link that might be useful: LOWE's: Garden Pro Pine Bark Fines

This post was edited by esox07 on Mon, Mar 4, 13 at 21:45

The brand I was got (at Lowes) was Evergreen. Pretty generic looking bag. They seem to alternate with another brand I don't remember.

DMForcier: Is that Evergreen brand a good consistency? It looks like it is in stock at my local (80 mile drive) Lowes.
This is what I get from the web site:

Evergreen 2 cu ft Natural Brown Pine Bark Mulch
Item #:92119 : Model #:92119
Bruce

Yes. The product I use is called mini nuggets, but it is a white bag with either black or blue lettering. They also sell their horse manure in the same colored bags along with some other things. Those products above should be the same thing.

I am happy to find I really dont need to compost the pine bark or age it. Like Greenman and others do, I just use a little more fertilizer to make up for the very little nitrogen depletion due to the bark breaking down. I have the same mix I used last year, and it is the same structure and looks like it could last years and years. I do like to use potting mix with one gal pots, but this bark mix for sure is better for the plant if you give enough fertilizer. I think using the 5-1-1 which has the partical size in the 1/16-3/8 range is the one of the best grow media ever. I have a good 1.5 cuft of the 5-1-1 ready to go for this season.

TheMasterGardener1:
Will you do me a favor and check the lowes web site for your local store for the "exact" product that you use. It seems they stock varing products from varying suppliers at each individual store. I don't want to drive 80 miles to find out these are 1" nuggets.
Bruce

esox07,

I just looked and cant even find it on their sight. Give them a call maybe, Ask them on the phone to check for you. From the looks of it, it looks like the products are different from area to area. Soon I will be picking up a few bags and will maybe get a pic of them. It may not do any good though as this may not be a product in any given area. The best thing to do is to call the store directly.

The product I get is very little dust then about 5 gal of the 2 cuft bag is the 1/16-1/2 pine fines. That is what I get afer sifting, 5 gal. That is not much being the bag is 14 or so gal. This is why I just use it right of the bag with added potting soil. Not a good all purpose mix at all and is only good for large containers.

I was able to find Faford Nursury blend at a place about 20 miles from me.. about 13 for a 2.8 Bag.

Josh, quick question. The mix contains started nutients, should I be adding a slow release fertilizer to the mix?

Thanks Master:
I just got a call after an internet inquiry to Lowes. They are having a bag of "Pine Bark Mulch" sent from one wisconsin store to the one I am closest to. They also have the evergreen stuff above. I will stop up to see if either are acceptable later this month or early next month.
Thanks,
Bruce

Bruce, if you have an Agway nearby, their brand name pine bark mulch is good stuff. I've also noticed that products and brands carried by Lowes and HD vary regionally, and even their website results vary based on location (I guess my browser knows where I am).

The "pine bark mulch" that's available at at my local Lowes and HD is that GardenPro brand and it's absolute garbage, ~90% sapwood. They have the GardenPro pine bark nuggets, which are way too big, but they do not carry the "mini nuggets", so I can't comment on those.

Alex

maple grove: Seems agway is only in the NE US. But their Pine Bark Mulch really does look good.
Bruce

> "Is that Evergreen brand a good consistency?"

Yeah, it's pretty decent. As TMG says not much dust, and there are a few shreds of sapwood but nothing to worry about. I haven't tried screening the "Pine Bark Nuggets" since I still have a bag or two of the Mini-Nuggets so I can't attest to yield, but I am getting a good 50% yield from the mini-nugs with a 1/2" screen. I wouldn't even worry much about using it unscreened with larger pots.

Now, I did get some pine bark mulch a couple years ago where the chunks were huge - some 6" long. Useful for area mulch, though not 5:1:1. I don't think it was Evergreen, though.

I spent about quarter to forever yesterday trying to google around and figure out the background info on 5-1-1, what it is, what folks think it is good for, the pros and cons of using it, how to make it etc.

It seems to be a regular "thing" on this forum, so would it be possible to create a 511 FAQ sticky for newbies like me?

I do not know "premixed that is as close to 5-1-1" is available to your area.

Preparation of Al's 5:1:1 needs to choose the right pine bark fine, otherwise your preparation may go wrong. The pine bark fine available here has a lot of sand, dust and sapwood so it needs proper screening but the size is OK. Dry pine bark fine is not available, it is frozen due to the climatic condition here, so all the sand, dust and sapwood are stuck together so it takes a lot of time for preparation for me.

Emcd1245 ask to Josh he knows very well about 5:1:1, I got help from him and now the 5:1:1 I use is getting very effective.

Caelian

Hey, Lorabell, you could wait to add the slow-release, just to play it safe.

For information on the 5-1-1, I recommend a visit to The Container Forum :-)

Josh

Thanks,

After last year with me forgetting to add lime, this year, I'm back to novice status with my questions. Thanks for your help.

> "It seems to be a regular "thing" on this forum, so would it be possible to create a 511 FAQ sticky for newbies like me?"

There's a good FAQ thread over in the Containers forum where the 5:1:1 experts hang out. Should be pretty close to the top. Also look in the FAQs section (see toolbar above) under Growing In Container (I think).

AFAIK, there is no "sticky" feature in this forum software, though we have asked. Perhaps the FAQs section is supposed to be enough?

They could probably dedicate an entire forum to 5-1-1.
Bruce

Here's an excellent summary of the 5-1-1. Really worth reading if you want to understand the nature of growing anything in a container.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tapla's 5-1-1 container mix in more detail

This post was edited by Ohiofem on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 23:14

How about "Western Organics Garden Bark, Pathway Bark" from Lowes? The ingredients on the bag said "Forest Products", however.

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/034141/034141000230.jpg

http://www.lowes.com/pd_58586-78212-GT00023_4294728555__?productId=3731889&Ns=p_product_avg_rating:1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_avg_rating:1&facetInfo=

I bought a bag and took a picture.

Sorry, Oilrigg, but that doesn't look good to me. "Forest products" probably means, at least in part, old, shredded wood pallets. Bark, and conifer bark in particular, is very different. Wood pallets are made of hardwood byproducts from the forest industry. Millions of pallets are discarded each year, and few landfills will accept them. That's why you'll see multicolored shredded mulch at every gas station and big box store. Bark contains lignin that keeps it rigid and provides air holding properties. Conifer bark also contains suberin, a natural preservative that keeps it from easily breaking down. Hardwood breaks down more rapidly, tying up the nitrogen in your mix.

Yep, that photo above clearly has a lot of "wood" in it. It won't work.
Bruce

Phuhehh :) I thought the pine bark here is so bad but I am wrong. If you use those bark for 5:1:1 it would be a lot of hard work to do.

Caelian

I used this last year and seemed to work well. However I did not know what I was doing (Still donâÂÂt). But it seems to meet a lot of the requirements/needs. I will post a picture of the medium and details. I have a half of bag left.

Bill

This seems not to have a lot of nutrients, perlite etc but the size I believe is good. I bougth it from Lowes last year, do not remember the cost.

Is this a sutable choice? What would you add to the medium? I bought a few of these bags last year and only added some slow release ferts and peppers did ok.... But, I was not growing super-hots/nukes. The bags I bought are 1.5 Cu Ft.

Bill

Bill, I'd add some bark and perlite. Looks good otherwise.

Josh

I looks to me like there's an awful lot of sapwood in it. Hard to tell. Also hard to tell what the "powder" is. If it's sawdust, that's almost all sapwood...

I don't necessarily trust labels, but it does say composted bark. I'd guess that the powder is fine bark and sphagnum dust.

Josh

I am going to use this as a mix. Yup. All bark up to about 1-1/2" in size. I used this in a 7 gallon container last year with really good results. A lot of watering and using a hydroponic fertilizer. I like using bark for the deck because there is not much sun there so this is perfect. And this mix of course could only work for very large containers and established plants. I will use it in container 2 gal and larger. I just added some lime to a 2 cuft bag and mixed it good.

I tested a mix of this at 6-7 part to one part potting mix. It worked but the soil went to the bottom half way through the year. The mix I used it at 100% was perfect all year and yielded nice. I have some left over and just got more.

{{gwi:4036}}

Edit: I will show some pics this year of plants growing in this mix.

This post was edited by TheMasterGardener1 on Wed, Mar 13, 13 at 18:05

I use the organic choice and mix it with the orchid mix and additional perlite the orchid mix has perlite just not enough.

This is a pic of my ghost from last season in the same mix so super hots like the mix.

Mark

Mark,

Plant looks great. I was thinking of strickly going with the MG Organic choice. I dont have the time really to spend mixing 100 pots or so of 5.1.1, let alone trying to find all the proper mixes for it. How much perlite and orchid mix did you use? Did you use any lime?

Bill

Hi Bill,
1/2 bag of MG Orchid mix 1/2 bag of MG organic, 2-4 cups of perlite. I could not find the real course stuff so I do with what I have. I do throw in bone meal but it takes awhile for it to break down before its plant useable but you don't need to include it.

Here is a pic of my current seedlings in this mix taken today. No added nutrients as of yet. The Orchid mix has some slow release frets included. But soon I will need to add additional fertilizer,

Mark

The rest of them. I still have a few seeds I am waiting on to sprout.

Mark

This post was edited by habjolokia on Wed, Mar 13, 13 at 20:18

Thanks Mark,

Couple more questions...

That looks like a 3 Gal pot, did you keep it in that pot or transplant to a larger one?

Are you able to fine MG Orcid mix in large bags? I cant, just the 16 quart or so bag.

What ferts are you using? How often?

Here is a pic I took today as I put these outside for about 20 minutes. The three on the left a Bhut's in MG Orchid mix. Only fertilized once with 20-8-16 at a 1/4 strength. Have to transplant real SOON...

Thanks for the advice and input for a first timer.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I did keep that one in the 3 gal but have since that pic purchased 5 gal. I just don't know what happened to my other pics. System upgrades swapping out hard drives they are on one of the few I have laying around lol. But do suggest 5 gal or more.

I wish I could find a bigger bag of the orchid mix but have not. I could however find the organic choice in a 2cf bag so using that and more perlite and less of the orchid mix works out well also.

Those Bhuts have very dark leaves, have not seen them that dark before. maybe abundance of nitrogen.

Last season I used Alaska fish fertilizer 5-1-1 and some MG liqua feed all purpose 12-4-8 but did not hook it up to the included spray nozzle. I just squeezed the bottle to force the liquid out into my watering container. I don't recommend this process since there is no measurement guideline, doing it that way, the chance to burn if incorrectly mixed is high.

I don't really have a feeding schedule, if I recall maybe once every two weeks could be three not sure.

I may use what Josh recommended in another thread, where you uses a light fertilization every time you water instead of a full dose every so often; weekly, biweekly or what ever schedule you may have.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Mark, Thank you...

This is my first year growing so I am sucking up all advice :)

I do not know if this is cheating or not, but the seeds from the Bhut's came from my wifes brother and I dried the seeds from the pods myself. He had a 7 foot plant, 3-4 year old if not older and it was 100% grown indoors using Hydroponics. Awesome plant, it had to be 5 feet wide and had 100's of pods.

Does this make a difference, Heck, I have no idea but they are the only plants that are this green.

Bill

Interesting, maybe growing in hydro has something to do with the darker leaves; genetics? not sure though. Sounds like your wife's brother should be on this thread giving advice on hydro setup for peppers. Does he grow any other pepper varieties?

Look forward to seeing pics as your season progresses.

Mark

This post was edited by habjolokia on Wed, Mar 13, 13 at 21:26