ziggy, thanks for the very thorough response. The thing that was confusing me was that my local nursery's web site, a "Native trees of SE Michigan" pamphlet, and a Midwest landscaping book all say the Canadian hemlock requires moist, well-drained soil. So my "speed bump" hill of sandy soil is only moist if it rains, and 10' down where the water table is. And the wetlands isn't "well-drained". I also had the landscape guy who was out to discuss our boulder retaining wall tell me hemlocks are hard to grow here, although they certainly sell them in every nursery I've been to. My "Native trees of SE MI" hemlock info also says, it "needs moist or wet acidic soils...is rare in SE Mi...is very sensitive to hot, dry conditions so be sure to plant this tree only in cool, moist locations." But maybe your "needs less moisture when shaded" comment is what makes the difference. Also, the nursery site says it needs to be planted in a winter protected area, which the "hill" isn't. A couple of years ago after hearing an arborist speak, I asked him about which tree to use here and mentioned that I didn't think a hemlock would work since it needed to be winter protected (I'd looked at the nursery info then, also). He looked at me like I was nuts, and said, "They're grown in Canada!" I'd read about the black spruce in my "Trees of Michigan and the Upper Great Lakes" book. Thanks for the suggestion, but I'd ruled this tree out because it said it "has a shallow root system that in swamps and bogs is easily uprooted by strong winds" and "the lower branches persist for many years after dying, making the tree unattractive for ornamental use." And there's a picture showing an unattractive black spruce with the dead branches half way up. So, based on what you both say, I'm wondering if the higher altitude in PA and the more northern WI location make a critical difference in the temperature factor. Hemlock is native to Michigan, but apparently in the northern part. I'm not trying to be difficult here. It's just that I spent 30 years in a condo with very little garden space, where I only could plant a few bushes and perennials. Now I have over an acre with lots of possibilities, but I have no experience with trees, and don't want to goof on these expensive plantings! So I'm trying to understand what my margin of safety is on these trees before I buy any! If, based on what I've added here, you think I'd still be reasonably safe with the hemlock, then I'll go ahead with them, since perhaps the amount of shade may end up being a bigger problem, which is why I am considering the yews for the hill if I don't use the hemlock. It sounds like the most logical place to try the hemlock would be the E location near the wetlands. The other wetlands location gets the W sun and winter winds. Thank you so much for your input! Anne

tj... Gertens is about 25 minutes from me. I've been there 2-3 times already this year, but not in the last 6 weeks of so. Maybe a quick trip up there is in order. Or, at least a browse of their online catalog. I bought a tree-form Diablo Ninebark there last year, and besides the powdery mildew, it's growing fantastically! you have succeeded as a REAL gardener .. when the hosta peeps come on a tour .. and ignore the hosta .. to look at all the other things that are so unusual ... then you have a top of the line garden ... Ken, thanks for the kind words. I don't think my garden would ever be worthy of the national AHS convention. It's said that you need to have 45 minutes of interest to be on the tour. And while one or two of the eight on tour here in MN last year failed in that regard, I don't think I could beat them. I do not care for "ordinary", other than the Colorado Blue. But a dwarf blue may be my best solution. whaas... on the far left of the pic is a silver maple. They line my entire back lot. My hostas seem to grow in spite of them. I'm starting another garden under a huge silver maple (out of frame) and will likely put those hosta in SpinOut bags. The tree in the middle of the pic is a Box Elder.... I HATE those trees! But this one is on the property line. Last year, I took out another Box Elder (my portion of it anyway) and asked the neighbors if they wanted me to take out there portion... 4 pathetic trunks at a 45 degree (or less) angle to the ground. They declined. So, now, I'm stuck with a suckering stump. I digress. All, I appreciate your zeal for weeping types like Picea engelmannii 'Bush's Lace', but they are not for me (or hubby, for that matter), at least, not in this spot. For this location, I want to stick with something more upright.

Hi all. I don't know too much about hoyas (or any plant really) but I can post what has worked for me. Apologies for repeating some of the things others have already suggested earlier! Seems like lots of plants, be they EA or anything else, suffer from either over or under watering at the hands of store employees. Sometimes it is difficult to even find something healthy to purchase in the first place. I think the EA guys, hoya in particular, are set back by over watering. If I find a EA hoya that I *need* he comes home, the attached saucer or sleeve around the pot is removed and the plant is placed in a fairly sunny area in the home and gets a good dose of benign neglect. So far I have not repotted an EA hoya for at least the last 10-15 years although I do take cutting on occasion. I *used* to repot them but found quickly that was the kiss of death ... sort of like transplanting Bird of Paradise. At least in my hands they don't tolerate being disturbed. I tend to keep my potted hoyas on the drier side as far as watering. I do have humidity for them though. A *most* sophisticated piece of equipment ... a Vicks vaporizer from Walmart that was less than $10.00 US. LOL! It's VERY easy to get going otherwise it would be beyond me. Right out of the box the water reservoir gets filled with water, a gallon I think, and gets plugged in. That's it! I started to add a drop of Miracle Gro liquid plant food to the reservoir every other day hoping that would weakly feed my S. American orchids and H. curtsii, H. tsangii and others that I grow mounted on tree fern bark as epiphytes. Hope that does not gunk up the works. Has any one tried that or have suggestions? The reservoir gets topped off once or twice a day and takes one or two minutes at the most each time. The vapor that is emitted actually increases the air circulation around the plants! :-) I used to have the pebble trays primarily for my orchids but still needed to mist them all the time! With the vaporizer I mist the plants that are no where near the vaporizer. I am very lazy and the less work I need to do the better and I can just enjoy my plants. I have no GH although that is on my "dream about it" list. No fans either. I conserve my energy for the late spring when the whole herd of plants do go outside to get unfiltered variable light and rain and storms and all the fun stuff that Ohio weather brings. I know everyone has different growing conditions and their own individual levels of commitment or abilities to try to grow hoya or any other plants. The only plant I have ever pulled from a pot and washed the roots free of potting medium are orchids which I want to grow as epiphytes or those who were purchased as "rescue" plants and were in the wrong sort of medium for me namely sphag. moss. The hoya I grow as epiphytes were from potted cuttings and then mounted on branches or tree fern bark. I for one cannot grow an ivy if my life depended on it! I have tried and murdered several so I spare future plants from a similar fate. I just don't have, or can't get, the right conditions here. LOL! I can get Orchids galore, Anthurium galore, Ginger galore, Hoya galore and others to thrive and bloom but not an ivy! So there is what I do and know about the hoya. Hope this helps some and does not annoy any one either. If nothing else ... this longer than intended post is probably a very good cure for insomnia! Any one still awake? Hello???? Hmmmmmm. Goodnight then! :-) C3D

shep, Spent some years in Giles Co.; now located just across the KY line, north of you... so I know, more or less where you are, and what's likely to grow &/or work there. Left untended, you'll likely end up with a mish-mash of redcedar, hackberry, black cherry, sassafras, elm ... and, unfortunately, these days... probably a bunch of callery pear seedlings, popping up among the various weeds, blackberries, sumac, buckbrush and other 'pioneer' species. If you're looking to plant trees, you're probably still going to be committed to doing some annual(at least) mowing/clearing around and between them, to keep undesirable(if only in your perspective) 'undergrowth' suppressed until the desirable trees can get ahead of the competition. If you're envisioning an 'open' woodland feature with little to no undergrowth ... that's probably decades away... if so, you may need to go for a 'high stem-density' planting, with plans to regularly thin a percentage of the trees as they begin to size up. As a nut tree enthusiast, I'd certainly be on board with previous recommendations for some nut trees...chestnuts, black walnut, hickories, oaks. But, bear in mind... a 50x100 plot won't support - at maturity - more than a couple; or at most, 4 to 6 - mature, productive nut trees. Landscape fabric...meh; horrid stuff. Weeds root right down through it; if you've ever removed it...it's like a biological desert under there; bare ground almost resembling concrete.