SEED POTATOES: I don't know of anyone who sells seed potatoes at this time of the year. All the big retail suppliers (Ronningers, Woodprairie Farms, etc.) generally don't harvest this year's crop until September. So, some will begin shipping in September if their harvest is completed in a timely manner.

ALTERNATIVE SOURCE: Sometimes when I need seed potatoes and cannot find any, I buy organic potatoes from somewhere like Whole Foods and hold them in a cool, dark area until they begin sprouting, and then plant them. It is important that they be organic because non-organic potatoes are treated with anti-sprouting chemicals which can keep them from sprouting for many months. I would not use grocery store potatoes as seed potatoes if any potato disease was an issue in your garden this year.

OVERWINTERING CROPS: I am a lot further south than you so cannot say what will overwinter there, but here in southcentral OK, pretty much all greens like spinach, kale and Swiss chard will overwinter. Sometimes they freeze back to the ground on a very cold night but usually regrow quickly. When I have a crop I'm concerned about with regards to cold nighttime temps, I cover that row with a frost-blanket type row cover. You can get row covers in various weights, and I believe the best ones keep your plants from freezing down to about 24 degrees. If you used a low tunnel made of greenhouse plastic, and then put frost blanket type row cover over the plants inside the low tunnel, I think you could get them through a cold winter just fine.

COLD FRAMES: Cold frames are great. Jay has them up there in Kansas, so hopefully he can address your questions about them. One thing with a cold frame, though, is that it holds heat. Thus, you must be very careful about opening it up in the morning to avoid a heat buildup or install a self-opening vent. Otherwise, becase of the greenhouse effect, you could roast your plants on a sunny day.

SAND BAGS/WINDBREAK:You can use sandbags to hold down the edges of floating row cover or a low tunnel made of greenhouse plastic. A windbreak helps too and you can construct an easy one by lining up hay bales on the side or sides that face the prevailing winds.

LOW TUNNELS: If you aren't familiar with low tunnels, go to the website of Johnny's Selected Seeds and look at the info about low tunnels there. (www.johnnyseeds.com)

GROW BAGS: You can grow potatoes in anything that will hold soil and which has good drainage provided it is large enough. I like the Sun Leaves Grow Bags which are black on the inside and white on the outside. They come in many sizes. I use the 10-gallon size. Next year I might try potatoes in some of the 30-gallon size. I've linked one source of Grow-Leaves grow bags below.

MY SEED POTATOES FOR FALL 2010: I saved small potatoes from the spring/summer crop, and also hold back a few seed potatoes from the spring planting to use for the fall planting. Usually, the ones held all summer have sprouts now (and some of mine do) and the ones harvested in June or July generally will sprout by Sept. and sometimes earlier.

Hope this answers your questions.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Sun Leaves Grow Bags at Worm's Way

I can't answer all of your questions, but I will start. I don't try to grow all winter, but I do plant salad greens in the fall and keep them going until mid December and I am north of you. I don't have a cold frame, but I kind of have a make shift system so that I can cover them up if we are going to have a frost or freeze. I normally plant cut-and-come-again type lettuce rather than head lettuce. Spinach holds up very well. I am going to try some new things this year.

I am thinking of planting a few potatoes for fall and just using a few of the potatoes I havested this spring. I think Mulberryknob does that, so maybe she will respond.

Jay has some great cold frames and I will have to search and see if I can find pictures. If not, maybe he will give us a link to his album. If they can withstand his winds, they can sure take Tulsa winds.

I am sure that others will be along shortly and answer your other questions.

Dawn and I always type at the same time. She can answer all of your questions. LOL

Carol can answer all your questions too!

I found Jay's album but can't find the cold frame pics. I'd love to see them too!

Jo

Here is a link that might be useful: Jay's album

Bill,

I invested in some coldframes as an experiment last year and found I was able to overwinter all the hardy greens like spinach, kale, chard and broccoli rabe. Also, I was able to get through the winter with romaine, radishes and some of the hardier salad greens by surrounding a couple of my cold frames with hay bales. I was so pleased, I'll probably try to push the envelope a little this year. I'm trying to figure out if I can grow snow peas in a coldframe!

But what Dawn said about keeping your cold frames ventiliated. Anything over 50 degrees needs to be open air all day. And I found positioning the frames to catch the sun's path directly is very important to get optimum growth.

Marcy

Marcy, Can you talk to us about Broccoli Rabe. I bought a pack, but have been undecided about when to plant it. Did you like it?

Carol said some over here wanted to see pictures of my frames. I had one cold frame and one hot frame this year. I love them. I use them to grow in the winter and to harden plants off. Many say they have troubles with ventilation. Maybe I've been lucky but I haven't seen that. I work all day so have to set them if I'm going to before I leave for work. I didn't open them at all till mid March or later. Then only and inch or so at the top. I bought a thermometer that shows the high and low temp for the day. You can adjust opening off of that. I will look to see if I still have any pictures saved. I may of deleted all of them. If so will post a few again. If not may be a few weeks before I have time to post any. Jay

I'm very interested in the Grow Bags, Dawn. Do you do anything special, other than add potting mix to them? I see they are pre-punched with holes, but do you need to add more? Also, for potatos, don't you "hill them up" and can you do that with a Grow Bag? Are they good for more than one season of growing?

I, too, am interested in Broccoli Raab.

Susan

Susan,

I just put potting mix in them. I don't add more holes and they drain just fine. If you're worried the soil would pack down too much and block the holes, you could put an inch or two of gravel, expanded shale or large bark mulch in the bottom, and I'm sure more holes wouldn't hurt.

For potatoes, I put about 8" of soil in the bag, put the seed potatoes on top of that, and add another inch or two of soil. Then, after they sprout and start growing, I add more soil (the equivalent of hilling up) as they grow. Before I add soil up to the top of the bag, I cut the bottom out of another bag and stack it on top of the first bag, using duct tape. That allows me to 'hill up' as much as I need. There is no reason to hill up more than 8" above the original soil grade because research has shown they'll only form tubers for about 8" worth of main stem no matter how much you hill up, and I have found that to be true in my garden whether I'm growing them in the ground or in containers. I'm going to grow my fall potatoes in grow bags because I think it will be easier to maintain the appropriate moisture level in grow bags since no rain is falling here.

I have used the same Grow Bags for three years now. Remember back in 2007 when we had that really wet May and June and all that flooding that just wouldn't stop? That's when I bought them. I ordered a box of 100 and have used them for various things ever since. They are very sturdy and tough and easy to move around even when filled with soil since they are so lightweight. I'm thinking of trying potatoes in some of the larger sized bags next year so I don't have to cut up the second bag to tape on top of the first, thereby creating a two-story bag. (Thank God for whoever created duct tape!)

Dawn

Carol,

First off, broccoli rabe is known as a bitter green even though it is a crucifer like cauliflower and broccoli. That probably makes the decision for most people. It does not have the sweet taste of broccoli.

I like greens that can be cooked with smoking high heat and charred just a little and still hold up. That is broccoli rabe. Cooking it with high heat or roasting at 425-450 tempers most of the bitterness. Carmelized onions also offset the bitterness. Blanching or steaming is not going to cut it with BR.

It has teeny, tiny little broccoli heads, but is mostly stem and leaf. If you don't like mustard greens or collard greens, you're probably not going to like broccoli rabe.

One of my favorite winter recipes that is a meal in itself and why I grow broccoli rabe follows. The acorn squash and sauteed onion adds a sweetness that offsets the slight bitterness of the rabe. It's good made with winter kale also. It's scrumptious!

Risotto With Broccoli Rabe and Acorn Squash

2 tablespoons olive oil
1 medium acorn squash, peeled, seeded and cut into 1/2-inch cubes (about 3 cups)
Salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste
4 1/2 cups homemade chicken stock
1 T butter
1/2 onion, slivered
1 bunch (1 pound) broccoli rabe, well rinsed and tough stems removed
1 1/2 cups Arborio rice
1 cup white wine
1 teaspoon lemon zest
1/2 cup freshly grated Parmesan, plus more for serving.

1. In a saute pan, heat 1 tablespoon of the olive oil over medium heat and add the squash. Cook, shaking the pan frequently, until the squash is softened but not mushy, about 5 minutes. Season with salt and pepper and set aside.

2. Place the stock in a saucepan on the back of the stove and adjust the heat so that it is just below a simmer.

3. In large, heavy-bottomed pot, heat the remaining tablespoon of olive oil and 1 tablespoon of butter over medium-high heat and add the onion. Cook, stirring, until the onion becomes lightly carmelized.

4. Add the rabe and continue to cook for another few minutes until it is somewhat reduced in volume. Add the rice and toss until well coated. Add the wine and cook, stirring, until it is almost completely evaporated.

5. One cup at a time, add 3 cups of the stock, letting the liquid all but evaporate between each addition and stirring constantly. (Lower the heat if necessary to keep the rice from sticking.) Add a fourth cup of stock along with the squash and continue to cook, stirring, until the mixture is almost completely dry.

6. Lower the heat and stir in the lemon zest, Parmesan and final 1/2 cup of stock. Season to taste with salt and pepper and cook, stirring, for a minute or two more until the mixture becomes creamy. Remove from the heat and serve immediately with Parmesan on the side.

Yield: 4 servings.

i'm looking at the dates from okiedawn's fall planting dates thread (linked below), when plants are listed like:

Leeks September 1 (seed or transplants)

does that mean i can plant either seed/transplant around that date, or i need to get the seeds in earlier so they are transplant size by that date?

and of the following that are transplant only:

Broccoli -- July 15 - August 15 (transplants)
Brussels Sprouts July 15 - August 15 (transplants)
Cabbage August 1 - August 25 (transplants)
Cauliflower August 1 - August 25 (transplants)
Collards August 1 - September 1 (transplants)
Kale September 1 (transplants)
Kohlrabi September 1 (transplants)

it looks like cabbase, cauliflower, collars, kale and kohlrabi can still be started from seed as of today (july 21st) and the transplants would be ready in time for planting. true?

Here is a link that might be useful: okiedawn's fall garden planting date thread

Bill,
I made 2 cold frames last November that were 48Ғfront & back and 23Ғ on the sides. I placed them on the South side of my house under the 24Ғ eaves. The winter sun will allow them 8 hours + of sunlight each day. The rear piece was 12Ғ high and the front was 6Ғ high. Overall size was 48x25. The plexiglass cover was 48x24x1/8. We planted a salad seed mix, from TLC gardens, which produced Mesclun, oak leaf and arugula lettuce all during Jan, Feb and into March. It was great to have fresh salad greens during the winter. I painted the frame white inside and outside. On the first frame I placed 2 cover hinges, but placed 4 on the second frame. Three or more is best. I bought 2 thermometers at Home Depot for $3 each. Numerous posts here, mention the extreme heat that can occur. Once in January at 11am on a warm winter day, I noticed an inside frame temp of 95F. Raising the cover 6Ғ allowed the temp to fall to a 75-80 f range. I closed the cover at evening.
I bought one 4x8x3/4 inch exterior plywood at Home Depot and they sawed it in half to fit my car trunk. Careful dimension planning prior to cutting will enable you to get the right results. A frame photo is attached. Sorry, Could not figure out how to attach photos.
Dale