When , how and why - Al's 5:1:1!
chilliwin
11 years ago
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Dhelsdon
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agochilliwin
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoRelated Discussions
Al's Gritty 5.1.1 or 1.1.1. Which is best for 10b zone
Comments (52)Anurag - the thread about container soils and water retention was written with the hope that those reading it would come away with an understanding of how water behaves in soils, & particularly how particle size and other physical characteristics impact perched water retention and o/a water retention. It's up to the grower to decide what he/she wants to do - how diligently they want to work at reducing the amount of excess water their soils hold. 1:1:1, screened bark:screened Turface:grit is the most productive soil I've used, but I don't use it for everything. Veggies & plants I know are only going to live a year of go 1 year between repots, usually go in the 5:1:1 mix. All of my woody plants, housep0lants including succulents, and other plants I know will be in the same soil for 2 growth cycles or longer, go in the gritty 1:1:1 mix. The 1:1:1 and 5:1:1 ratios are guidelines, but they're good ones. They minimize the amount of perched water a soil holds, and the gritty mix makes a good run at maximizing the volume of water held inside soil particles while still offering additional adjustability. If you live in a rainy climate and you're using the gritty mix, you might want to increase the amount of grit and decrease the amount of Turface commensurately. If it's dry where you live, increase the Turface and decrease the grit - but make sure that the soil holds enough water to carry you through the dry days, but not so much your plant suffers during periods of prolonged rain. Shading the pots when it's hot is very helpful. High soil/root temps is one of the primary limiting factors for container growers. I like soluble synthetic fertilizers. There is no more efficient way to ensure your plants get what they need, when they need it, at the right ratio, and in a favorable o/a concentration. How you fertilize is up to you, but soluble synthetics make fertilizing almost foolproof, as long as the grower holds up his/her end of the deal. When you root prune, the object is to eliminate large roots that aren't attached to the trunk and are in unfavorable positions to make room for and increase the number of fine roots, which do all the work except anchoring and transport. You'll need to develop a feel for root pruning because all plants don't get the same treatment. Reread the thread about water movement in soil, and the one about trees in containers. Make sure you understand what's in those threads. If you do gain that understanding, it should make a significant difference in what you get back for your efforts. Best luck. Al...See MoreIssues with Al's 5-1-1 mix
Comments (29)5:1:1 would be like a good computer motherboard, a skillful person can unlock the potential of a good motherboard. When I started learning assembled computer and overclocking I destroyed a lot of motherboards, I was not able to use the full potential of the motherboard because I was an inexperienced beginner. I spent a lot of time and money and finally somewhat I am able to do what I'd like to do with my machine, that's I enjoy now :-). So if you have skill may be you can unlock the potential of your plants, it is up to your skill of container gardening. Overclocked CPU are void warrantee we know that but to use the full potential of the machine we use a lot of difference means and methods. Just like adding lime, slow release fertilizer ....whatever you called to 5:1:1. The time changed the means and methods of overclocking as well as 5:1:1 won't remain just like the time it has been created, I think. It should be changed according to the climatic condition and the growing environment and the type of plants we grow. To unlock the potential of container plants, 5:1:1 has been created and then started to tweak it to make it works it is natural for those people who loves it, just like overclocking. One of our forum members TheMasterGardener gave his opinion last year about 5:1:1 I consider he is right. I know very well how many of our active forum members support this 5:1:1. As a hobby container gardener I have been trying to get some useful information from the different opinions to grow my plants better :-). too bad very selfish :-). I do not know how bad are those potting soil available in the markets over there but the potting soil we have here is very much acceptable. Before I am here I used it without much problems. The problems we have here is mainly cold climate and sunshine. I have been in so many different forums only here 5:1:1 is keep doing discussion so there must be a good reason, I think. The issues with Al's 5-1-1 mix should be solved by your skillful application of the advice you got here. Please do not be serious, just I share my opinion. I encourage whoever likes to try new things. Good luck Caelian...See MoreMy solution to pine bark fines for Al's (Tapla) 5-1-1 mix
Comments (18)Great post. I tried this method this past weekend. Relative to the lawn mower method of chopping up large pine bark chunks, I found this method to be cleaner (it doesn't shoot pine chunks out the sides like a mower will), a bit slower than the mower, and produced a lot more fine particles. I have a high speed Toro leaf blower/mulcher with a metal impeller. A large percentage of the particles coming out felt like fine compost, and a large number of chunks went through looking unscathed, so I didn't get the mix of particle sizes that I was hoping for. I suppose if I had a 1/8" screen, I could have sifted out some of the fine stuff. As it was, I got about 3 gallons of material, and made a side batch of 5-1-1 to try with some peppers, but I didn't mix it in with the rest of my 5-1-1....See MoreChilies & tomatoes + Al's 5-1-1 + smart pots in a hot, dry climate
Comments (7)Is this a valid concern? Enough to either switch to standard pots instead, or increase the ratio of calcined products even further? I'd say it's a valid concern, given the evaporative surface is probably in the neighborhood of trebled. I can't tell you what to do because it sort of depends on how much you're willing to water. I suppose it you're willing to water daily if that's necessary, a try at upping the water retention with the added water-retaining products is a good bet. Regardless of what you try- why not also try at least one variant container type with a regular mix (if you use 1 pot) or a super soaker mix if you use the fabric bags. - And just out of curiosity, if the unscreened Turface/DE doesn't affect aeration why do you (seemingly) prefer perlite? Cost- or weight-related? I use perlite because I don't want or need the additional water retention afforded by products like Turface or calcined DE. I don't particularly like to water, but my plants appreciate me making soils that require frequent watering. I have at least 200 containers, so I have to make the watering rounds daily (unless it rains) anyway, because I have so many bonsai pots that have 1/2 cup of soil or less. Some plants only need watering every 5 days or so (like pines & junipers), but the little guys demand close attention. That's not the soil's fault - it's related almost entirely to my choices that limit soil volume. Should I water based on the volume of the media with 5-1-1, or should I water based on the size of the plant? Both of those considerations are part of what you use to decide when to water. A well made 5:1:1 is quite forgiving when it comes to the potential for over-watering, so common sense usually carries the day. After a planting is established, you might wait for a weekend when you know you can watch a plant carefully. Water on Wednesday or Thursday, then watch carefully for the first sign of wilt to give you a better idea of where the limits are. It won't take long before you'll be factoring light levels, wind, humidity ..... as a matter of course into your determination of when to water - it'll become almost reflexive. I hardly even think about what I'm doing as I water - usually thinking about something else. If you're in doubt about whether or not the plant will be ok until your next opportunity to water ..... you can usually water w/o ill effects because of the nature of the soil you're using. - Would you recommend the seedlings in an intermediate pot before they go into their final 15gal homes? Personally, I wouldn't bother, but I WOULD be mindful of making sure I keep the soil moist where I think the roots are. IOW, if all the roots are in the top 3" of soil, you better water so the top 3" is moist enough to satisfy water demands. As noted, if you run into this issue at transplant time, you can set the fabric bags on the ground (to take advantage of the earth's wicking action, or set things up so an actual wick is keeping the lower part of the container from staying soggy - say if you have to water daily immediately after transplanting. Don't worry about asking questions. That's what drives the forums. If I can't answer, there are a lot of smart folk here who can help. Once I'm a part of as thread I usually follow it until it fades away, so if you're getting replies from others (say on this thread) and I seem to have gone missing, it's just that I agree with what's being said & there's no need for me to add anything to 'their' able advice. If I think you're not getting good info, I usually offer some sort of input that will make whoever's following the thread view what was said in a light that shows it might not hold up to more than casual scrutiny. With the number of messages I get from people who actually make a point of saying they are totally confused by conflicting information, it's probably as GOOD thing for everyone if we make it more of a point to hold each other's feet to the fire so people can rely on what's being presented as good advice. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Thanks for the kind words, BTW. Al...See MoreDMForcier
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoTheMasterGardener1
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agochilliwin
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoteyo
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoDMForcier
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoOhiofem 6a/5b Southwest Ohio
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoTheMasterGardener1
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agostudiousjr
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agochilliwin
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoDMForcier
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoOhiofem 6a/5b Southwest Ohio
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoDMForcier
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoDMForcier
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoTheMasterGardener1
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoDMForcier
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoSugi_C (Las Vegas, NV)
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoTheMasterGardener1
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoJoe Cwik
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoZ Man
5 years agoJoe Cwik
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoZ Man
5 years agoJoe Cwik
5 years agoZ Man
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agomcreader503
5 years agoJoe Cwik
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoZ Man
5 years agomcreader503
5 years agoZ Man
5 years ago
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