I know these are tangents from your soaker hose question, but hopefully you'll find some info useful: I don't know what kind of weeds you have or how extensive the problem is. But the key to getting rid of weeds and keeping an area weed free is planning far enough ahead and constant maintenance. I don't recommend Roundup, you don't need it. Weed eating is a futile effort unless your taking out the roots as well. So long as the roots are still in the ground, most of your weeds will continue to come back. You need to completely eliminate the entire plant: top and bottom. Depending on what "weeds" were in your soil, if you tilled, you most likely brought up dormant weed seeds that were too deep to sprout and broke up stems (crab grass for instance) into smaller pieces where the nodes still sprouted. If tilling is the chosen method, then do so at least six weeks in advance, and preferably months in advance in order for the soil tilth to build back again as well as for dormant seeds to sprout so you can skim them to kill them as they come up. Do this a few times for a couple of weeks until they've subsided, then you're ready to plant. Next you need to mulch and mulch well (2-3 inches). This will prevent further sprouting of weeds and prevent migrating wind born seeds from taking root in your soil. If you plant vegetable seeds, you can mulch with a thin layer of shredded leaves or grass clippings or compost or straw, etc. When the seedlings get 3-4 inches tall you can mulch at a greater thickness and more as they get larger. If you want to go the newspaper route, try Freecycle.org and ask for newspaper. You might be pleasantly surprised. There's probably someone out there (like me) with plenty of newspaper to share, especially if it's going to good use and getting recycled. You can also call your local newspaper, tell them what you need it for and ask if they have any discards. You need to do layers of 8-12 damp (soak them in a bucket of water first) sheet, then cover with soil. If you don't it will dry and fly away. But if you can cover with soil, or mulch, it would work. You can also try cardboard. Call local businesses for both. You can also try black plastic mulch, but it won't add organic matter to your soil. The issue with straw are seeds which might sprout and cause problems. It works great, just make sure you know what you're getting: When using hay or straw, you need to know your source and exactly what is in the bales. Hay and Straw Glossary A popular organic mulch, hay is commonly used to protect soil and plants from the elements, to line pathways, and to address various needs in the garden. What many people don't realize, however, is that various products are often labeled as "hay" at garden centers, but there are many different types of hay and straw that are commonly sold in bales. While they are easily confused, it's important for gardeners to become familiar with the differences. Salt hay Salt hay, or Spartina patens, is a grassy plant that grows in salt marshes and wetlands. MIt is useful for keeping weeds from growing in paths, preventing runoff, and keeping soil from turning into mud whenever it rains or the garden is watered. A layer of salt hay will keep soil moist and encourage worms to come to the surface, which will help to aerate the soil. It also makes an attractive path to walk on between garden rows. Salt hay is an ideal all-purpose mulch because its seeds won't grow away from salt water so it won't germinate in your garden. Golden straw What is commonly termed "Golden straw" is either oat straw, Avena, or wheat straw, Triticum. This straw is a by-product of the process of separating oat or wheat seeds from their stalks. Golden straw is often used as bedding in horse stalls; because there are no seeds, the horses won't eat it. This straw spreads nicely, and the lack of seeds means there is no risk of it germinating in your garden. It can be used in the same way as salt hay. Wheat straw An excellent choice for straw for use in the vegetable garden. Lay down six inches in height in the fall then direct sow seeds in the spring. No need to dig. There will be a handful of weak sprouts from seeds, just pull them out. Feed hay Just as its name implies, feed hay is used to feed livestock. Though inexpensive and plentiful, it is not a good choice for use in gardens because it is full of seeds. The main ingredient of feed hay is alfalfa, Medicago sativa. It also frequently contains flowers and seeds from many other plants and weeds such as clover and golden rod. These seeds are likely to germinate, resulting in a garden full of weeds rather than flowers and vegetables. Soil Solarization is another technique you can use, using clear 6 mil plastic. It has been around for a long time. It's effective for those who have patience and can plan ahead. A drawback is that it kills beneficial organisms and bacteria in the soil. What I do is lay roof shingles over any area where I want to create a bed. Within two weeks vegetation underneath is weak and pretty close to dead. I wait until the soil is crumbly underneath, sink my spade in and start hand sifting and pulling out everything then I crumble it back in the spot along with compost so it's light and airy and never walk on it again. Then I'll mulch with leaves and/or grass clippings. Usually the latter. I don't do huge areas of space at a time. Literally just lay them on top of the grass and overlap them a bit so light doesn't get thru. After a couple of weeks and after a rain check to see if the soil is "friable" (soil crumbles in your hands). Length of time after a rain will depend on whether your soil is sandy, clay, etc. For me it can be 2-3 days in certain parts of the yard, 1 day in another area of the yard. When you lift the shingles, you'll see there is little to no grass and what you can see is yellow or white. Sink a spade in and lift up, then just get in there with your hands and fingers and take a chunk and pull out the roots. This works fabulously with bermuda grass because the main runner stem is in tact but the roots have died off so all you have to do is follow the runners. Sometimes they're 4 feet long. But they're soooo much easier to get out! Much less work than tilling and sifting. Then crumble the soil lightly back into the spot with your fingers. As you crumble take out out any weed matter and into the compost pile they go. This is the best time to incorporate compost or any other soil amendments. Now don't walk on the area or you'll compact the soil. I'll take out large rocks as well since we grow rocks around here. I've responded to "Wanted: Rocks" on freecycle.org a couple of times so now they're gone and have found use to fill holes under fences so dogs don't escape. The problem with tilling bermuda grass is that when you do that, you create a lot of little pieces that are not easy to find and get out without a sifter. If one tiny piece with a node gets left behind, it'll take root and take off and you have the same problem all over again.

This year I created a new bed for veggies. I've been flat out, so I just dug holes for the veggies, added compost and planted. Did not till the soil or bother weeding in between the veggies/herbs. Then, after we had a good soaking 3 inch rain and the ground was nice and wet, I spread wet newspaper in between all the plants, and then spread a couple inches of compost over the newspaper. I may add straw or grass clippings as a final tidy mulch, but the compost looks pretty good. The newspapers were about 4-8 sheets thick, I don't really fuss too much about that. The pile of newspapers had sat out for several weeks, and got good and wet. Discovered that it's much easier to work with when it's damp!

I think that lifting weed fabric that's underneath rooted plants could either be a great thing, or be disastrous. If the roost grow into the fabric (as they often do), you'd be ripping root systems apart as you lift the fabric. If roots don't penetrate, the fabric will hinder root growth and plant growth in turn. ;The fabric will also prevent some amount of GOOD critter action among the roots too, although this might not be that big of an issue for you. Also, if you have "wildflowers" that like to send down fast and deep taproots, this barrier will not be good. Nor will you have great luck transplanting them. :P I use a lot of cardboard, newspaper, and even paper grocery shopping bags as a method of creating new beds primarily. Thinner paper material is good in areas where it's more dry and the breakdown of organic material happens slower (like on hot dry sunny slopes and in a new rock garden, for example). I use cardboard where stuff happens faster, and in my yard cardboard is about the right thickness and has the right "stuff" to quell weeds while breaking down fast enough to allow the plants on top to establish happily. A good recipe for a fast and beautiful bed without a lot of work or worry: - a space that's about 10x10 feet in size or so - about 100 paper grocery bags - about a cubic yard of good compost -a roll of black landscape plastic or a bunch of black garbage bags - one order of a great seed mix This time of year, you mark your space, put down paper bags on the ground, wet them with a hose, then layer over about 6 inches of compost. Wet really well, then lay black plastic or plastic garbage bags over the top and let it sit over the winter. Then in the spring, pull back the plastic, seed it, and keep it watered. Viola, a new flower bed! Here is a link that might be useful: An Awesome Wildflower Mix

Wow, Mona. That is a lot of newspaper, four to ten layers. I would have to save newspaper forever to get that much for my big bed in back. I have done it before in one of my small beds on the side of my house. If I want to mulch before summer, my only chance is next weekend, as my friend with the truck is going away for six months after that, so I'll only have a week's worth of paper. Maybe I can use my neighbor's as well. Last year I used newspaper on the bed on the north side of my house. I was told that it makes it more durable to do that. The layers stick together better. That worked well for me.. But it was small bed. I will call around tomorrow, but so far I've only found one nursery, 45 min. away that carries the small pine bark. I have not seen it at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. HD only has the big nuggets. i'll call more tomorrow. For my front bed, i think the mini will look pretty. Daylilies are delicate looking and I think the small mulch will look better. When you say the bigger, do you mean regular size pine bark nuggets? I had never thought of mulching pots. I will have to try that. I don't have any daylilies in pots, but other things. Maybe I'll use the bigger mulch around my Magnolia tree in the same bed. Do you thik that would look okay? If I can't get the truck for the mini pine bark I don't know what I'll do. It is only sold in one place that I've found, and not by the bag. Do you think a bunch of sheets would work for a tarp.I read Lilynut's post wrong. I don't have anything to cover the mulch. I was thinking a tarp to cover the bottom of the truck. I would not know what to use to cover the mulch. Maybe my friends have somethign already for their truck. I'll email tonight and ask. Thanks so much. Thanks again for this info., Mona.