Apprently some folks are very emotionally involved in this issue. I simply have not seen any evidence that tree species are suffering from GW. I do in fact read alot of forestry journals (I am a faculty member in a foretry department at a large research university). That isn't to say that papers haven't been published that claim this to be true. Rather, the data they present doesn't actually support their hypotheses. I challenge the "doomsdayers" to show me a study that proves that tree species are suffering from human-caused GW. If you do this, I will retract my statements. As for your childish rant on my typo, I am pretty certain you knew what I meant by "impirical evidence". In any case, provide a citation for some "pirmicale, I mean empirical evidence" then. Its amazing how much hatred there is for anyone that disagrees with those who claim to "know the facts" and are enlightened on the subject of climate change. It becomes pretty obvious to any actual academic researcher that these folks are thinking with their emotions when they won't even answer the basic questions being asked and begin to make petty comments about the intelligence and/or social status of those challenging them.

Jae, I included a description and photo of each of the different seeds I sent you. I usually make my decisions based on data from the web - how the tomatoes grow, their yield and if I see they have done well in hot-humid climates. I also lurk over at the Tomato Forum to get some ideas. One thing to keep in mind is never dismiss or select any one tomato based on what someone else said it tasts like. Different growing conditions and the fact that everyone's taste is different are strong factors. I found some 'maters that have been HIGHLY praised by others (like Cherokee Purple) NOT to my liking and others that people pass off as bland, or not that special (My Husky Cherry Reds, for example) taste great to me. The Cherokee Purple was store bought and I could not determine ripeness. BUT I am still growing some seeds from it that Tom gave me. I believe in experimenting! Good luck with your seeds and let me know how they do for you! Maybe we can open up a tomato stand on Immokalee Rd this winter 1/2 way between fort Myers and Naples! lol

Dorothy, From watching how the jetstream, I think it has persistently come close enough to your end of Oklahoma that you get the gray, gloomy clouds on the edge of the cold fronts that are dropping snow and ice north of you. Way down here in southern OK we've had more sun than last year, but in the last week or so, the sun has become increasingly rare. Keith, You're welcome. I'm getting pretty concerned about y'all up there in central OK. This is the driest I remember seeing your part of the state in winter in several years. I understand exactly what you did and why. I'd probably do exactly the same thing if I was a dry as you are. When my soil gets so dry in drought periods that rainfall or sprinkler irrigation rolls downhill on the surface of the ground and isn't even absorbed, I know I've waited too late to start watering. I think it is always better, even (maybe especially) in winter to water the dry ground. If it gets too, too dry and planting time is approaching, it can be hard to keep the soil moist enough for seeds to sprout. The big mistake I made in one dry spring (may have been 2003 or 2005) is that I planted and watered sparingly waiting for rain to fall to give the seeds and plants more water. Well, rain never fell and by the time I realized that I should have been watering more heavily to get them off to a good start, the were pretty stunted and pathetic. It was a hard lesson to learn, but it made me a better gardener in succeeding dry years. Don't even mention those photos of those big old black clouds. They are fascinating but in a horrifying and very scarey type of way. I hope and pray we've learned enough about conservation and no-till commercial farming that we never put ourselves in that predicament again. Can you imagine the mass hysteria, especially on the part of the media with its 24-hour-news-cycle nowadays if we had something like that occurring? If you haven't read the book about the Dust Bowl days that I've linked below, I highly recommend it. I reread it once every 2 or 3 years to remind myself of how bad it was and what all those folks went through. We throw the word "diaster" and "catastophe" around pretty loosely nowadays, but those people who endured the Dust Bowl years really lived through a catastrophe and it lasted for years. Some of the old-timers here have told me stories about what it was like here in our county, and it wasn't pretty. One of them lived on land adjacent to ours and she tried to explain what it was like to have the big clouds of dust ruin the laundry you'd just washed, or blow through the cracks in walls, etc. into the house and cover everything with a fine layer of dust. She was a very small child then so I'm not sure how much she remembers directly and how much she remembers from hearing her folks talk about it later on their lives. I just can't imagine what it was like to endure 8 long years of catastrophe. My dad did tell me about the pure agony of watching crops fail over and over, which was a disaster for folks who essentially raised all their own food. So, if couldn't grow a crop, you couldn't eat. One thing that sticks in my memory from photos of those days is just how painfully thin everybody was. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: The Worst Hard Time

there is a plant propogation book i have wherein the author describes his own mist system. that author has a large black coil of hose in the roof of his greenhouse so that water can be heated before reaching the mist nozzles. that's at least one vote for using warm water and keeping the cuttings reasonably warm as they root. just thought i would toss that in! lol. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mosaic z8 LA (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 11:59 With such a setup you could probably root roses under mist all winter here in Louisiana. And then as an added bonus, you could save on your power bills all summer by using it to steam your veggies :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: tammyinwv z6/WV (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:05 i have been unable to find the mist heads even within an hr from my home.Someone mentioned here they found them for .50 each.would anyone be willing to get me a couple and mail them? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: wild_garden virginia z6b (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:32 at my lowes store the mist heads where in the indoor gardening area next to the register, i doubt the people at lowes would have even know what to look for. it was with the drip irrigation supplies, as i said in the indoor gardening area next to the big outdoor area where they sell trees and things. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mist heads supply source Posted by: RoseHawke 7b AL (My Page) on Mon, May 12, 03 at 10:37 For you folks that haven't been able to find the heads locally, try going to this site: Dripworks or here's a direct link to one of the pages with some heads:Misters . I just a couple of weeks ago ordered some irrigation supplies from them and received them quite quickly. About 4 days if I remember correctly. Haven't had a chance to put it together yet, which is probably just as well as the flood we had last week would've probably washed everything down the creek ;-). I also have the Melnor timer, and it does seem a bit confusing about its ability to do a mist cycle, but what you're doing is programing it to do one cycle (on in the am; off in the pm) and punching in a choice of watering pattern, in this case the off for 10" on for 2" pattern. I believe the idea behind the pattern was/is actually to help prevent water run-off when doing overhead watering by allowing the water to soak in between the on phases. I bought this particular timer though because when I looked at it my mind said "Ah! Mist!" (heh), even though the reason I bought it at the time was to keep a new patch of zoysia sod watered until it rooted in. My batteries did last all season last year, but it was only opening that valve 4x a day for 3 weeks, and then 1x every 4 days for a couple of months. I can see where a misting pattern of opening and closing that valve many times during the day may eat batteries, but as ShamanSherpa pointed out, it's still cheaper than a $100+ misting timer! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: patclem z7 (or 6) TN (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 03 at 8:32 Regardless of how much water it wastes, etc, I decided to experiment with misting. I am TERRIBLE at rooting cuttings. I've tried baggies. I've tried jars. I've tried special cutting trays with plastic domes. I've had one rooted cutting out of probably 50. I had the same problem finding true super-fine mist systems in the south. None at Lowe's, none at HD. They're not popular here because they don't have the same evaporating effect they have in less humid areas of the country - they make you wet here. Here's where I found mist heads. They didn't charge me anything for shipping. They were super-good to deal with online. Web Page - Phone/Fax 888-693-0578 Local/Fax (719) 495-2266 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W401; Product: Monarch Misting Nozzles M-1; Amount: $7.40 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W519; Product: Reducing Tee for Monarch Misting Nozzles; Amount: $4.40 You have to go to Lowe's or local hardware store and get a hose adapter, timers, 1/2" PVC, PVC caps, etc. I have mine set up with 2 mist heads, and about a 6' diameter section of my grass is soaked! I don't have mine on a timer yet. Results? I don't have any yet, except none of my cuttings have turned black yet. PS - I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH THIS BUSINESS IN ANY WAY! Here is a link that might be useful: Mist Heads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: fuselighter 7/WA (My Page) on Thu, May 29, 03 at 21:41 I am so excited about the misting bed. I went out and bought all the supplies today. Total cost was about $15 (my husband had PVC and elbows left over from installing the sprinkler system). I would like to go to an intermittent system eventually, but for now I am going with continuous. The water bill is not an issue because we have an irrigation system (there is an annual fee but it is not based on usage). I set the whole thing up in about an hour. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: debbinard Z4CO (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 10:54 Shamansherpa -- I could not open your picture! I live in Colorado, it gets very warm middle of June (up to upper 90's) and stays low humidity. We are on outsidewater restrictions 2xweek, so I'm not sure this method would fly. Am wondering how visible this is, or if inside is an option under lights. At any rate, I would like to propigate some rose cuttings now (is this a good time?) My daughter in law is moving and would love some plants from a rose with sentimental value. Is the rooting hormone used just the usual or special for roses? Thanks Deb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 13:48 Deb, Maybe you could call your water extention office and see if you can get special permission, exsplain to them how little water it uses. Yes you use rooting hormone, there are many available. Dip and grow I here is supposed to be really good. I got some of the more exspensive stuff from a friend whom bought it threw rose imporium on line. But you can always use something like dip and grow. Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: rose_enthusiast z7 TX. (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 15:47 Hi there Deanna! It seems to me you've managed to help a lot of people with your invaluable info. And I would like to thank you for inspiring me to start a misting bed to root my cuttings. I have one question to add to the many others you've been getting though... What rose company is it that you get your rooting hormone from? Is it Rose Emporium or the Antique Rose Emporium? I would like to purchase this product as well, since you and this company are using this to successfully root your cuttings. Thanks Again, Carlos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 1:31 Carlos, Thank you but we should all thank AngieAnders, she is the one who did all the research and work to discover this method and then post it here for us last year! She truly diserves all the credit. I just wanted to keep any new people aware that have just started rooting this year. Best of luck all and don't forget to post your sucess! Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: epiphany z5b PA (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 9:28 I found the Arizona Mist system which is by Orbit as mentioned at Wal-Mart. It has 12' of tubing, end cap, six misting heads and hose adapter for $14.95. Of course, it is once again cold and wet here,......all of a balmy 56°. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: auntnana 6 TN (My Page) on Thu, Jun 5, 03 at 13:06 I ordered the misting heads mentioned above from Dripworks last year and they don't put out a fine mist as much as they do a fine spray/droplets. And even though I had a pressure regulator on there, I kept having a problem with the heads blowing off! (Their drippers work perfectly by the way so it's nothing against the company) I ordered foggers from Misty Mate this year and they put out a super fine fog. Perfect for propagation. They are a litte more expensive than the ones from Dripworks but worth it. And if you ask they will ship the misting heads for $1.50. I went to HD and bought a 10-24 tap and drill set (3.00) and drilled holes in my 1/2" cvpvc and the heads just screwed right in! I bought a Melnor timer at HD for $39 and it has 1 minute spray options so I've got it set for 1 minute every 10 minutes. Can't remember the model number but it's not the one on the HD website. I hope to finish my new propagation box soon. I built one on a stand this year so I can move it around easily. Wouldn't you know, HD has plastic sheeting made just for greenhouses that I used! It's not the real thick heavy stuff either. It's only 4mil and is crystal clear see-thru! Hopefully I'll be finished this week!