I might be wrong on this but I don't think fertilizer in the fall has anything to do with green up in the spring. I think it has more to do with watering. I've kept my lawn green all winter long by watering deeply every week. If your neighbors applied chemicals, they had to water it in and probably continued to water. Have you been watering?

Assuming I don't water all winter, my lawn does not green up early. I find that to be a minor blessing. One of my objectives is to keep the grass dark green but growing slowly.

You should not have had to overseed KBG. It spreads and can become very dense. Why do you want the TTTF in your turf? Is there something wrong with the KBG?

"I might be wrong on this but I don't think fertilizer in the fall has anything to do with green up in the spring."

I think it depends. With cool season grasses, a late fall high N fertilization feeds the grass but doesn't lead to growth because it's all going into the roots for storage. It's a little trickier to get this right with organics, but I've found that if I get enough coffee grounds on the lawn during the fall (basically keep going until it stops getting digested or the snow falls, which both seem to happen about the same time) that my grass rarely goes dormant in the winter.

I might be wrong on this but I don't think fertilizer the fall has anything to do with green up in the spring.

With cool-season grasses, it has everything to do with the late fall application. Not only has it been documented and tested on the GardenWeb Lawn Care forum, there has been much scientific research on the topic as well.

Also, you are talking about watering all winter long. Look at where you live, and look at where the OP lives. I don't need to go into details about the climate difference between the two locations. And once a cool season grass goes into dormancy in the winter because of soil temps, you can water all you like, you're not going to bring it out of that dormancy when the soil temperatures are too cold.

skizot, you are right that my lawn has been dormant all winter. And I don't think it has lacked for water, because we had a relatively snowy winter and quite a bit of rain this spring.

I don't have any proof, but it seems like we have better spring color when we've done a good job with fall fertilization. And I suspect that a good shot of N would green it up, because the greenest, thickest area of our lawn is where our dog does her business. The CGM seems like it's working; it's just not very fast. I like it, though, because my kids are out on the grass all the time, and it feels safer to me.

The reason I asked about TTTF was because we overseed regularly, and I wanted something a little sturdier than KBG. If it had better early spring color, that would be a bonus. And dchall, if you don't need to overseed, then you must either have fewer children, or a much larger lawn than me : )

freezetag,

If you're not 100% opposed to synthetic, the one time a year to use it is the very last fall application. The key here is to apply a quick release fertilizer such as Urea 46-0-0 at about 1.0 to 1.25 lbs. / 1,000 sq. ft. after your grass has stopped growing, but is still green. When your grass reaches that point depends on where you live and your climate. For me in KS, it's usually around the last week in November, or first week of December.

Because the soil/air has gotten too cool at that point for shoot growth, all of the N is stored in the root system until it warms up. At the first signs of warming weather in the Spring, the lawn wakes up and jumps straight out of bed. :-) Two other nice benefits from that fertilization are that the grass stays green a bit longer into Winter, and you don't need an early Spring application to wake the grass up (which usually results in reduced root growth due to heavy top growth). I tried it for the first time last Fall, and this Spring my grass was a solid deep green 4 weeks before my neighbors grass even started turning green (they all have the same cultivars as I do). We all have TTTF.

I didn't mention it in my first post, but Spring green-up can differ between cultivars. Some will green-up quicker than others. But, the test that I did was pretty successful in proving that the late app of quick release N definitely does allow the grass to green-up much earlier since the lawns I'm using for comparison are using the exact same cultivars as mine.

As far as overseeding goes, I think what dchall was talking about is the way in which KBG spreads. It spreads via rhizomes, whereas most TTTF does not. This allows the KBG to fill in bare spots easily over time. Note that I said "most" TTTF. There are newer cultivars of TTTF that spread via rhizomatous activity, and because of that, they can spread to fill in bare spots, albeit not as quickly as KBG (two of the cultivars in my TTTF are of that variety). So, what dchall means is that as long as your KBG is healthy, you shouldn't need to overseed every Fall; your lawn should take care of that itself.

Y'all missed the point of my comment, but the point might be moot anyway. I don't think fertilizer has anything to do with it because I can keep mine green without fertilizer. Having said that, it would seem like irrigation is not a factor in the OPs situation.

Dog pee is warm and might have the effect of waking up the soil microbes in those spots. Unless you are watering with 100 degree F water, that isn't going to help you. ...just thinking out loud here.

If you have children and no KBG, you will definitely have to reseed every fall. Seems like you have a choice between early green up and annual overseeding. Maybe the newer TTTF varieties will give you both.

Regarding the fertilizing - do you fertilize the KBG at all during the year, or end of spring? You mentioned CGM, but I understand that is more a pre-em than a high N/protein food source.

From what I've read here, KBG can be a "nitrogen hog" (or protein hog? (if we're talking organics)). If it's not fed, it won't spread. (Can I trademark that phrase?)

Lastly - how old is your lawn? A fairly frequent poster last year (need help with his name - he did a major KBG reseed in SE PA in 06 or 07) observed that KBG doesn't look "great" until year 2. My initial observations of my own "melting pot" of a lawn are leaning towards agreeing with this - my KBG overseeded portions look great in the second Spring since overseeding in Fall '07. (I'm witholding judgement until the lovely Northern VA summer hits).

Lastly - I've noticed the same about my grass regarding my dog. She likes to pee along the border of the grass and rose bed. That strip grows the tallest in the spring, often in clumps where she pees. However, come the summer, it also risks burnout. I'm respectfully disagreeing with the warmer soil possibility. (The soil would warm up for only 15 minutes or so on a 30 degree evening - would that effect microbe activity so quickly?) I believe it's due more to the constant doses of urea throughout the winter.

Regards,

Gags

"You mentioned CGM, but I understand that is more a pre-em than a high N/protein food source. "

Actually, it's both. It's about 9% N, which puts it pretty high in the list among organic products.