Genetic question

16 years ago

I did search this question, as I thought it would be a common one. Either I was searching using the wrong words, or something, cause I couldn't find much.

I was wondering if there was any rhyme or reason to the parentage of seedlings and their outcome? I know about how the pod parent allows for streakers and solids etc., but thats about it. Mostly I gather, from here and there, you breed for characteristics you want to carry over... and shoot the dice? It seems some plants may send dominant traits over as a rule, and you basically learn from experience what crosses tend to give you. Somewhat correct?

For instance, out of seedlings of a streaked parent, open pollinated... I can ultimately wind up with any size, shape of leaf, texture, etc., in those parents' genetics? And then maybe even some unexpected? It can also self pollinate... and that means ?? as far as seedling characteristics (one would think you may be more likely to have more hosta kids like the pod parent)?

I'm up for suggestions of books for easy reading on the subject, if I can learn more. I will certainly pass on books similar in writings to the Genetics section at the Hosta Library, though. I consider myself a bright light bulb... but I just didn't have the attention span for that type of info.

Sorry... I feel like a little kid who cant quit asking why? why?

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Comments (10)

maryann_____chgo
16 years ago
You'll find some answers in Gregor Mendel's research. I think it's called Mendel's Rule of Genetics.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pea Plant Experiment
toymr2mk2
16 years ago
Here is a link to a new forum dedicated specifically to growing hosta seed. There is already much discussion on genetics there that should be helpful as well as the forum owners and members being some very knowledgeable folks on this subject that are more than willing to help.
Hope this helps and good luck!
Art

Here is a link that might be useful: Hostaseedgrowers Forum
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esther_opal
16 years ago
The gene pool of hosta is so large that simple answers are difficult to find. Someone ran the numbers of specie and cultivars and come up with a number of close to a million possibilities.

After I learned that the thought of knowing more was more daunting than my little mind was willing to take on.

Closely made crosses will yield somewhat partially predictable results but not really sure results. Many plant breeding projects aim to get to a fairly precise result, hosta breeding aims at differences so breeders make it more complicated instead of less.

Now comes chimeraÂs, which are not genetically different but appear different and now it more complicated.

Finally you undertake an exhaustively complicated study of hosta genetics and next year all the breeders professional and amateur have created new crosses then you have a whole new equation.

Have fun, for a fairly bright bulb you may wear yourself out trying to come to simple answers.
hostamanfred
16 years ago
Smorz,
if you are interested in coming up with anything new, be prepared to raise hundreds, maybe thousands, of seedlings in pots for 2-3 years, and at the end retain 2 or 3 of them, as your contribution to the hosta world.
If you hate getting up at 5 every morning to polinate your hostas or fill up your freezer with thousands of pollen samples, there is another way. Plant the hostas you are trying to cross in close proximity to each other and let the bees take over. Wade & Gatton confirma this as viable solution.
Manfred
jspece
16 years ago
Like Butch said, there is no simple, black & white answer when it comes to hosta genetics. Hostas do not follow Mendel's rules.

As a very, very general guideline, when you cross two plants you should/could/might end up with something that looks somewhat like the two parents have morphed into one plant...maybe.

Color can be inherited from either parent.

Variegation comes only from streaked pod parents 99.99% of the time. Grow enough seed from non-streaked mother plants and eventually you'll find a variegated seedling. 'Dorothy Benedict' came about this way.

Fragrance and flower color can be passed on by either parent.

As far as open pollinated seedlings go...it's a crap shoot! Many people think most OP seeds are the result self pollination.

I kind of think of growing hosta seeds as a numbers game. The more you grow, the better your odds of finding something great. Controlled crosses greatly improve your odds of finding something unique...with the right cross!
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
16 years ago
never quit asking.. why, why, why .... but don't get frustrated when you cant get an answer .. short of a PhD ...

most hosta can not self pollinate ... as i understand.. and i ain't got no PhD ... IF YOU REMOVE THE POLLEN thingees ... so that the bees cant land and self pollinate ... i dont want to argue the exceptions ... but feel free if you want too ...

sit down .... have a beer .. and think about this ... can you and spouse predict what the kids will look like??? probably not ... so why do you think there is an answer about hosta ....

as you note... all the genes of mom.. dad.. grandparents.. great grandparents.. etc ... will be involved ...

the key .. as i understand it.. is to have a breeding goal ...

if your goal is a cordate .. heart shaped leaf ... then any seed that comes up montana shaped or lance shaped.. should be 'culled' ....

you suffer as i did ... perhaps.. with not having a goal ...

once you establish your goal .. then choosing mom and dad.. and researching g-parents ... becomes a smaller job ...

if you are shooting for hadspen blue size and shape ... no need to use swoosh or don quixote as a parent.. or if you have to use a lance shaped mom ... then you can get rid of all the lance shaped babes.. since you will not be moving toward your goal ....

ron livingston once told me.. in a manner so simple.. the light went on ... start by developing the green version of what you want... once you develop the size and shape ... its just too easy to take that pollen to a streaked mom .. to add the edge or center ....

in other words... trying to accomplish the WHOLE goal in one cross is ... as you know... mind bending ...

another example .... you want a blue mouse ears sized blue ... with white edge... but you want it corrugated.. bumpy ...

you might cross BME with something else of similar size. but corrugated .... until you get the size and texture you want .... and then years later ... add it to a streaker ...

am i making any sense ????

i guess a new post might be.. what are the list of characteristics to consider ...

ken

PS: take the names i mention to hosta library to see what i am trying to say .... open 2 browsers .. it might help ...
esther_opal
16 years ago
Ron LivingstonÂs advice is worth considering. Jim Hawes left the seed in the garden and selected from what can up that he liked when he choose to move a seedling. Some times he didn't move a seedling for some number of years. Then at some point he would decide to cull a seedling period. Many who hybridize want quick answers, which is fine, but they throw away many fine plants. Ron defined his goals, which are not universal, your game play it by your rules.

Herb Benedict arrived at H.ÂDorothyÂ through many back crosses.
jspece
16 years ago
"in other words... trying to accomplish the WHOLE goal in one cross is ... as you know... mind bending ..."

Excellent point, Ken. This past July, Don Dean spoke about hybridizing at the Midwest Convention...very interesting!! One thing he mentioned was that hybridizing is a long term project. If you only stick with it for a couple years, your goals will never be achieved.
smorz
Original Author
16 years ago
Thank you for all the insight. Fun is all I plan on having, but at least I have some direction. Now, I just need to make up my mind as to what I really like, because it seems to change like the weather. I cannot wait to go to Foxfire Botanical Gardens, it will be my first chance to really see mature varieties. Also looking forward to bringing home some instant gratification! I told my husband I wanted Foxfire Divine Winds, and he 'bout fell over from sticker shock... poor guy!
lisasmall
16 years ago
Smorz, I can see why you want Foxfire Divine Winds, but I can also see why your DH nearly keeled over!

Yipes!

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