Soil Testing: Your opinions?

13 years ago

I'm starting a new hosta bed in my front landscape. Planting will take place in the spring... mostly from thinning out the back garden. It'll be a bit of a secret garden as it's not going to be very visible from the street, but very visible to me from my front window and porch.

As you can see in the pic below, the area has been under about 4-8" of limestone mulch and black plastic for at least 8 years, maybe close to 10. Thank you previous owner NOT! I curse the use of rock and black plastic.... even wrote about it on my blog: http://koskashostas.wordpress.com/2010/05/15/landscape-rock-black-plastic-weed-liner-bad-choice/

The rocks and plastic have been removed. I'll admit I feel a little bad that a good friend took the rocks...but she promises that she has no plans to ever plant in that area! (she's read my blog!)

The soil, well... yuck. Seems fairly sandy... I'm sure that's from the previous owner's using it as the bed for the retaining walls. I have already mulched up a lot of leaves to spread onto the bed over the winter. In the spring, I'll get my hands on some horse manure compost too.

All that said...given that this bed hasn't seen the light of day for most of the last decade, and I already plan to copiously add organic material, should I spend the money ($15 plus shipping) to have the soil tested?

What will it tell me?

Will it be valuable to my plans to grow gorgeous hosta here?

Thru the U of MN, the Regular Series test includes: phosphorus, potassium, pH and lime requirement, organic matter (%) and estimated texture class

The view from the street. If you see where the new Diablo Ninebark tree form is, you will notice the bed kinda wraps around it and will line the sidewalk to the house. Nearly all of the limestone you see in this pic has been removed to prep for that bed.

Yes, this is a silver maple and my plans are to remove it in the coming years. I hate the darned thing.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (11)

i-like-to-grow
13 years ago
plant them and they will grow
16.00 is reasonable for soil testing... but I'd much rather buy my own kit.... I found one in an organic farming/gardening catalog for 60 bones... If I remember correctly, it would do 35 pH, 15 N, 15 P and 15 K tests.... and as far as advertised it had no expiration date... others I had reviewed had obvious expiration dates mentioned and were much cheaper in price.....
one thing we must mention....soil testing isn't necessary for starting a recreational planting area... seriously since you are taking good measures to improve the soil quality ne ways... what would be better though... is to compost those leaves with that manure over the winter... then come spring.. till that compost into the native soil along with some shredded wood mulch or straw for added loaminess... you'd be able to dig into that bed with just your bare hand =)Since prime hosta season kinda ended a couple months or more ago... I have been working with plastic barrels... building various composter designs and getting some good results... soil tests are fun... don't get me wrong... been working with different small batch recipes for compost... i'm working with 55 gallon barrels... keeping track of what I put in each barrel... I'm wanting to buy this soil testing kit to test my compost batches to see what recipes give me what results... I think it will be neat... I'm composting mainly things I have a plentiful supply of... and am working on a batch with black walnut hulls... black walnut hulls contain juglone... a toxin with herbicide properties... certain plants will not survive in the soil... but I'm pretty sure most if not all hostas will... If I can get a close to perfectly rich soil...that will grow hostas and kill weeds... can you say oh yeah! lol...
Go Melissa Go
John
Steve Massachusetts
13 years ago
With all that limestone there for so long, I would want to know the ph, and I would want to measure it both before and after you add the soil amendments. So I agree with John. Buy a kit and measure it yourself.

Steve
Related Discussions
Al: I would value your opinion on this test of mine...
Q
Comments (29)
I have a Dwarf Cavendish Banana too. :) They are both fine. I trimmed back the Banana in late Fall (all except 4-5 newest leaves). The Lime I bought last Spring. It was about 10 inches tall then & is about 2 and 1/2 to 3 feet tall now. They are in my basement below the house, sealed area with a tiny bit of air intake & that's it...much warmer than the Winter here. In fact, I need to check on them! I have watered them very little since they went down there, like I read I was supposed to do...Anyways, i've gone off on a fruit tangent the last 2 years. I also have Blackberries, Raspberries & Strawberries that should produce this year. I'm growing new Mexican Papaya, Grapes & Pomegranate too. Yet to make it on to my blog cuz the berry plants are overwintering fine, but have little foliage. The Strawberries, the same. The Mexican Papaya I grew from seed & are about 3 inches tall at 3 months or so old. The grapes are arriving from Jung any day now. I'm excited to throw a twist into things this year again with the fruits & also some of them should produce this year too! Time for that perfect garden addition of sweet to an already home made bbq sauce...muahahaha. - Steve
...See More
please tell me your opinions about soil testing
Q
Comments (2)
From what I have seen of soil tests they depend on commercial fertilizers to balance so what use is that if a person wants to remain organic Just not true. Soil tests just describe chemical and structural properties of soil, they may have a reccomendation about what to do about deficiencies, and that reccomendation might involve chemical products (you of course could find an organic alternative) but it is always a good idea to do a soil test before applying any type of fertilzer even organic in my opinion. the 'need' to test it would arise if something wasnt doing well and you wanted to know exactly why. If your plants are doing fine then great there is not a reason to test your soil. But that doesnt invalidate testing. Some people may have an interest or need to be more precise. and if adding vegeatative matter has such a permanent effect then why reccomend doing it every year? Organic gardening is a good practice but this kind of blind ignorance is so tiresome.....It sounds like youve reached this simplistic reductionist conclusion and you just want everyone to agree with it.
...See More
Where do you have your Soil Tested
Q
Comments (24)
First, GMO's (or GEO's if you prefer) have NOTHING to do with soil amendments or fertilizers so let's just leave them out of the discussion. They are not pertinent and as they are so misunderstood by the general public (see above), any discussion here will only confuse the soil testing issue further. And let's also be careful not to get hung up on terminology. It is pretty unusual to encounter a "dead" soil - depleted, yes....dead, no. A dead soil is one where nothing grows. Nothing!! Heavily cropped agricultural soils are often depleted - lacking an appropriately populous and diverse soil biology, nutrient deficient and lacking in OM - but are rarely dead. And it is not just the application of synthetic/manufactured fertilizers that are to blame but also the frequent tilling and the lack of replenishment of organic matter. And allowing the soils to remain fallow periodically, so that rainfall leaches any lingering nutrients. btw, fertilizer companies are not in the business of doing soil tests. ANY reputable soil testing lab will make recommendations for nutrient adjustments based on your soil test - it is up to the gardener how and with what one addresses those adjustments: smaller quantities of fast acting, easy to access and relatively inexpensive synthetic ferts and amendments or significantly larger quantities of more expensive, slower acting organic inputs. FWIW, it is quite possible to maintain a healthy soil environment while using synthetic ferts. Just do not apply unless necessary and do not apply more than is necessary. And replenish OM by routine mulching at the very least. And the exact same advice is given when using organic ferts - apply only when necessary and do not apply more than is necessary. Over-application of even organically sourced fertilizers can create imbalances and wreak havoc with the soil biology as well. After more than 30 years of teaching soils classes and advising and consulting on home gardening issues, I can state with some assurance that annual or routine soil tests are seldom called for for a home gardening situation (cropping on a large scale or farming is a very different situation). Once a baseline test has been done and any deficiencies addressed, moderate application of a balanced fertilizer, either synthetic or organic - when deemed necessary - will not create any substantial alterations in the soil chemistry or throw things out of balance. And if you routinely apply OM in the form of a properly 'finished', diverse ingredient compost (as in a mulch or topdressing), then the instances of needing or requiring a supplemental fertilizer application are virtually non-existent. In 25 years of gardening the same plot of land, I can think of only once or twice I used a recognized "fertilizer" (organic or not). But I did mulch routinely with compost, which supplied or resupplied any necessary nutrients that were deficient or lacking, not to mention stimulating an active soil biology. My garden was lush and profuse, without any serious insect or disease problems and hosted a vibrant soil biology. New gardeners have a tendency to overlook soil qualities altogether or over-think them. The more you known about soils and understand how plants access and process nutrients the less one needs to focus on soil tests and fertilizing. It becomes more of an experiential thing and far less a factor of outside (soil test) input.
...See More
Would love your input on this year's soil test
Q
Comments (26)
This is a bit embarrassing. I guess I've been out of the loop. Brookside never has posted fees but their costs were between $20 and 40 depending on packages. They do not offer recommendations, so you would need to have someone do them or learn how. They are the soil test laboratory of choice for PACE Turf, the preeminent golf coarse turf specialists. I'd advise giving them a call to verify cost for a test that includes Buffer pH, major cations and micronutrients. Waypoint, formerly a number of separate A&L labs, used to list their packages, individual add on tests and fees, but apparently no longer. They were a bargain. The SM3 test used to be about $18 or less. Comprehensive Test packages (Cations, OM, micronutrients, and buffer pH and recommendations) ranged from $15-20 with individual add-on tests about $3-10 ea. Once again, I'd call to verify fees for a comprehensive suite and whether they still provide recommendations. http://waypointanalytical.com/HomeOwners# A&L Western is not part of Waypoint. They still list fees and packages and do provide an option for recommendations for $2. You can pick and chose packages Starting with the S1B and add micronutrients, buffer pH (if your soils is acidic) or carbonate content % ( if your soil is alkaline). Costs can add up, but are comparable to the cost of a Logan test that includes the same tests and recommendations.. In most cases, the S1B ($14) [w/o the buffer pH ($10) or carbonate test ($18) or micronutients (S3-$18)], would be sufficient. I'd call to see what the suite of tests you want would cost. http://www.al-labs-west.com/fee-schedule.php?section=Soil%20Analysis
...See More
jspece
13 years ago
Hmmm...I'm inclined to agree with John. Pile on the organic matter and call it good. We all know hostas are not fussy about soil. The compost should have all the nutrients they need.

Now if your new hostas are not growing as expected in 2-3 years, a test may be in order. I suspect they will do just fine, though!
swmogardens
13 years ago
Looks like your bed will have a lot, or even full sun. Now would be a great time to install soaker hoses. Those hostas will need more water. You might also consider raising that retaining wall to make your bed more level. You have a very pretty home by the way.
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
13 years ago
With the varying degree of accuracy in soil test kits, if you are going to test I'd go through the U of MN so you know its correct. The price is very reasonable and it would be good to have a starting point you could rely on.

tj
thisismelissa
Original Author
13 years ago
The saga with this bed continues. I was out with a soil cultivator today... kinda a garden fork kinda thing.... loosening the soil so that the mulched up leaves could settle into the air pockets with the spring rains and thaw. The previous owner, of whom I regularly question and curse the landscape decisions, installed a very questionable means of lighting the landscape.

There's a 3" pvc pipe running under the sidewalk you see in pic 1... that's not the questionable part though. I runs into the bed at the left, which I've replanted and now contains annabelle hydrangea. The pvc pipe in the bed I'm working in, has a rock trench running from the pvc at the sidewalk out to the corner of the retaining wall, next to the ninebark. Um, HUH? It's almost like a drain/dry rock bed, but it's not even properly done for that!....

Looks like your bed will have a lot, or even full sun. Now would be a great time to install soaker hoses. Those hostas will need more water. You might also consider raising that retaining wall to make your bed more level. You have a very pretty home by the way.

Yes, swmo, you're correct. It will be getting nearly full sun as it will be from approx 10am to 3pm, with the tree's current canopy shadow. And I'd already planned on doing either a soaker or drip for that area. There is already a sprinkler head by the driveway (approx where the ninebark tree is), so I was just going to tap off of that or add a separate drip line off the faucet at the side of the house.... we'll see what hubby is willing to help with in that arena!

That retaining wall used to be another course higher and that allowed for the limestone to be level(ish) up by the sidewalk. However, in our 2nd year here, we noticed that the rock had pushed the retaining all stones forward as the were not properly set. So, we took off the top layer so as not to draw attention to the fact that they were tipping forward. We're not willing to do the work to correct the wall's foundation, so we'll have to just deal with it as it is, unfortunately.

I'm sorta leaning toward testing at the U... I know it'd be accurate that way.
in ny zone5
13 years ago
A hosta bed in full sun! In one of my sunny spots in zone 5a Blue Cadet was doing fine, but the supposedly sun tolerant Fragrant Bouquet and Orange Marmalade got burned up several times, reflushed but never looked good after June. I will use dwarf conifers in there next year. Heathers are doing fine too in my yard in the sun.
It is good to know the soil (ph, nutrients) in several parts of the landscape. In the past I had bought a kit which seemed to give me satisfactory results.
Good luck!
Bernd
thisismelissa
Original Author
13 years ago
Bernd..
I'm zone 4a in Minnesota, so I don't get a ton of heat and the angle of the sun isn't so bad. I plan on only using sun tolerant varieties and being generous with water. I know a couple people her in MN who have fairly sunny hosta beds and they're doing well.

Worst case scenario, I'll move everything back to my shady garden.
swmogardens
13 years ago
That's one of the things I love about hosta; you can move them around so easily.
in ny zone5
13 years ago
Melissa,
yes I saw the zone 4a, my bad experience must have led to not acknowledge the one zone difference to my 5a.
Have fun!
Bernd
andy10917
13 years ago
Melissa:

On a different forum, I am the Soils and Composting Forum moderator. I read and interpret hundreds of soil tests a year, and I can't begin to tell you just how important a good soil test, DONE PROFESSIONALLY, is. The home kits are for the most part garbage.

To grow plants and lawns to be the best they can be, there are nutrients that are critical in the tiniest amounts, and they're never in standard fertilizer. Some of them are so tiny that they are a tablespoon in a 1000 sq ft area. Yes, Hosta is remarkably tolerant of poor soil conditions, but if you have ever seen a plant before/after a soil adjustment, you'll never doubt again. I had a person from Canada that had a dying personal-favorite rhodo that is recovering well after a teaspoon of the right nutrient. Try UMASS ($13 including micronutrient testing) or Logan Labs ($20 including micronutrients). They're the best labs. Post your results here and I'll interpret them for you.

Soil Testing: Your opinions?

Comments (11)

i-like-to-grow

Steve Massachusetts

Related Discussions

jspece

swmogardens

tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱

thisismelissa
Original Author

in ny zone5

thisismelissa
Original Author

swmogardens

in ny zone5

andy10917

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Soil Testing: Your opinions?

Comments (11)

Related Discussions

thisismelissaOriginal Author

thisismelissaOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

thisismelissa
Original Author

thisismelissa
Original Author