Where to have your soil tested depends on where I the world you are. In the United States many of the state agricultural schools do that through their Cooperative Extension Service offices. Some, however, have stopped doing that so people in those states need either rely on commercial labs or use on of the state university labs that will process out of state samples. People outside the USA may have difficulty finding a soil test lab. I find that often when I put in a search for, say, soil testing in France I will get links to the University of Illinois and other, useless, places.

When having a soil test done by your state university there should be a box to check for organic recommendations that should exclude getting the usual "apply X amount of 12-12-12", or you could , as I have, ignore that as useless information. People outside the USA may also find that sending soil samples to a lab in the USA is very expensive and difficult due to rules and regulations that pretty much prohibit sending soil sample into the USA.

Then there are those home test kits that really do not give you enough information about that soil and may not be very reliable.

kimmq is kimmsr

I do agree with you on the home testing kits, you might as will throw your money in the air because that is all you get, not acetate not even close.

That is why ask about these two Companies for they do very acetate testing and give you what you need to improve your soil if it has things tied up.

I have use CSI over the years but would like to hear from anyone who has used International Ag Labs?

I have not used either lab.

Acetate testing? Can you tell us more about that?

Would you care to post some soil test results, describe your soil texture and what you are growing?

Or maybe you don't want to get into a whole analysis of your results, which is fine. I was just curious.

Never mind, I went to AgLabs and read up on their soil tests including the acetate extraction.

You didn't ask my opinion so you can ignore this if you like.

Now I am no expert on ag soil chemistry but I am a chemist. It seems to me that Wendell Owens thinks the soil testing methods used all these years are not helpful/accurate, and that he knows something the rest of the industry does not. Whenever someone talks like that I say "Wait a minute, there are millions of hours of research over decades of time on this topic. Surely all those scientists didn't all miss this...?"

Not that there shouldn't be continuous improvement and innovation - that is after all the scientific process. I'm just not sure the average gardener needs to spend a lot of money on testing. Compost works wonders. :-]

" I'm just not sure the average gardener needs to spend a lot of money on testing. Compost works wonders. :-] "

Exactly!! After the initial baseline test and whatever amending is suggested to get the nutrients in balance for that soil, compost (or the addition of whatever other OM one prefers, although personally, I'd stick with compost) is generally all that is necessary going forward.

I have raised beds and haven't had my soil tested cause each bed is different and has had different things added at different times, and have used different additions of soil from different places. Some beds get topped one year and others get it the next year.

I try to get at least some of my own compost into a couple of beds each year and some years I get a truckload and they all get topped off.

But with 7 raised beds and 3 raised up off the ground beds even at $15 per test that would be about $150!

My last 2 years have been pretty crappy and I'm blaming it on the drought. I have a decent well, and can water as much as I want (well gets monitored every 3 months due to a casino going in nearby =( )

Here's to a nice wet El Nino and back to some decent gardening! Nancy

toxcrusadr in away I agree with you, but by adding compost do we really know just how this is changing to soil and lucking nutrients up in the soil.that the plants need to grow.

We all would like to grow nutrient food.

It is like the soil that I have and what I have put on my garden over the years I thought that I was doing my soil good, but little did I know I was unable to use some of the nutrients because they were tied up, after I had my soil test I was able to brake them out and my garden has produced more and more nourishable food than in the past years.

You have stated why should we change the way we test soil since the ag soil chemistry has done millions of hours of research over decades of time on this topic. Surely all those scientists didn't all miss this...?"

Since the end of WW11 we have put chemicals on our soil for over 75 years to get better yields and added more each year killing the microorganisms in the soil. Today the soil is dead and cannot produce nutritious food. So by having a very good soil test and using the Organic method you will be able to improve your soils without using chemicals and your soil will become alive again.

Here is another question, does your soil have worms in it, did you find them after it has rained? If not your soil is dead.

Why have you become a chemist since the chemist ahead of you already did the research on everything ahead of you. I would say because there are still improvements to be made and cures to be answered. Same here.

nancyjane If I was was doing what you are doing I would definitely have a soil test done on each bed, I would not do them all in one year, but do 2 or 3 one year and then do 2 or 3 the next year that way you know what you are looking at and what you need to do, Once you have them all done you can wait 3 or 4 years and check them again.

You said that your gardens did not do very will this year and it was dry, you could have things tied up in the ground.

I live in Ohio and it was dry here also but my garden did very will this year thanks for the soil test because there was all kinds of things tied up and they started to be able to brake lose and the plants was able to use them again.

Not testing the soil is a bit like driving someplace without a map or other directions. If, for example, you wanted to drive from Las Vegas to Chicago and headed toward San Diego you would likely not get where you wanted .

http://www.ncagr.gov/cyber/kidswrld/plant/soiltest.htm

kimmq is kimmsr

I agree with some of your points John. It's good that you were able to make changes that helped fertility. I would be interested in hearing more about what nutrients were 'locked up' and exactly how that happened, and how you adjusted it - pH, organic matter, minerals, etc. If you are advocating for others to follow the same methods, more detail is needed.

I disagree that chemical fertilizers make soil 'dead'. Aside from the fact that ag soils have millions of microbes per gram - even the 'dead' looking soils - it's not the addition of fertilizers but the lack of organic matter that's the problem. Even placing soil in an autoclave and pressure-cooking it does not fully sterilize it. When people add compost to poor soil its fertility improves because of the compost rather than the fact that chemical fert use has been reduced or eliminated. The organic matter matrix provides a much healthier environment for microbes. I doubt that a pair of beakers side by side, one with dilute NPK solution added and the other with water, would show any difference in microbe populations. Over decades, adding compost to one patch of ground and only fertilizers to the other, there would be a difference in the soil. Fertilizer is not poison, but there are plenty of other reasons to minimize its use and to use compost as much as possible. JMHO as a compost advocate (I'm certainly not promoting fertilizers, or I wouldn't be here in a compost forum!).

I consider every innovation or traditional idea on its own merits, including test methods, soil amendments, gardening techniques, composting methods, etc. If someone can explain why something works, I am always willing to listen.

I actually became a chemist to help clean up hazardous waste sites so the land would be healthy again. :-]

I've heard all kinds of claims about chemical fertilizers killing earthworms and everything else in the soil. After using them I can't see that anything has been killed. The microscopic ones, I can't really tell but I think they're still doing OK. The point is where I have tested the "dead soil" claims are demonstrably false.

Around where I live the farmers fumigate with Methyl Bromide. As I understand it, that really does kill everything in the soil. They then fertilize with chemical granular fertilizers. They grow some fine turnips.

I use "A & L" Laboratories which supposedly uses the proper procedures for the northern Willamette Valley soils. It's also close enough to my house to drop off soil samples. The first year I did it revealed an enormous Calcium shortage which was corrected with limes. I also decided there was enough phosphorous that I didn't have to worry about adding any for a while. I tested again the following year to see how my mineral corrections worked. I figure going forward I'll test maybe once every three years at $35 per test.

Have you looked to see just how many fish Worms are in your soil?

Or don't you even care how many worms are in your soil?

You say that the soil is just as good as it was 75 years ago?

Yes I will agree that we are producing more yields than what we had in the past, the nutrition in the food we eat is far less than what it was 75 years ago.

With all the chemical fertilizers we up on our gardens and field the soil in slow dying and the Fertilizer Companies will denying it because it's all about money, just like everything else.

Canada is NO longer using chemicals on their crops as sprays, but the US says GMO foods are good for although they do not know the out come of them down the road 10 or 15 years ago. But yet you say the soil is not dying or is dead. Why don't you go drink the water from the field or gardens that use chemicals and tell us what the out come will be.

That is why we need to see where are soil is today ad hat needs to be done with it. Yes you can take your soil to the Fertilizer Company and they will test it and tell you what chemicals to put on . Or you can take it to a independent Soil Test Company and they will tell you what you need in ether Sustainable or Organic Fertilizers. The choice is yours.

I'm pretty horrified at the chemical usage on the farms around where I live. Not only do they fumigate the soil, they plow before planting, they follow it up with granular fertilizers, then spray insecticides, then use roundup for the off season weeds. All requiring gas-guzzling tractors going back and forth.

I agree with you 100%, what I don't understand is these people who disagree that our soil is being killed and they just don't see what is happening in front of them Perhaps they just don't care and when something happens to them it will be to late.

It's just like Agent Orange back in the 60's and 70's now you have all those Service Men and Women. Yes that was GMO's back than and we kind giving and using those GMO's today, it all goes into our food and soil.

It is not so much the "chemical" (synthetic) fertilizers that kill off the soil microbes as it is the lack of organic matter in that soil. The Soil Food Web relies on organic matter in the soil as a source of food and when that becomes depleted, which those synthetic fertilizers help with, the Soil Food Web members either moves on to better pastures or go dormant. The nutrients in animal manures are chemicals.

Wrong use of Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs), John. All of the plants we grow, and eat, today are genetically modified as are we.

kimmq is kimmsr

"Canada is NO longer using chemicals on their crops as sprays,"

News to this Canadian.

First, GMO's (or GEO's if you prefer) have NOTHING to do with soil amendments or fertilizers so let's just leave them out of the discussion. They are not pertinent and as they are so misunderstood by the general public (see above), any discussion here will only confuse the soil testing issue further.

And let's also be careful not to get hung up on terminology. It is pretty unusual to encounter a "dead" soil - depleted, yes....dead, no. A dead soil is one where nothing grows. Nothing!!

Heavily cropped agricultural soils are often depleted - lacking an appropriately populous and diverse soil biology, nutrient deficient and lacking in OM - but are rarely dead. And it is not just the application of synthetic/manufactured fertilizers that are to blame but also the frequent tilling and the lack of replenishment of organic matter. And allowing the soils to remain fallow periodically, so that rainfall leaches any lingering nutrients.

btw, fertilizer companies are not in the business of doing soil tests. ANY reputable soil testing lab will make recommendations for nutrient adjustments based on your soil test - it is up to the gardener how and with what one addresses those adjustments: smaller quantities of fast acting, easy to access and relatively inexpensive synthetic ferts and amendments or significantly larger quantities of more expensive, slower acting organic inputs.

FWIW, it is quite possible to maintain a healthy soil environment while using synthetic ferts. Just do not apply unless necessary and do not apply more than is necessary. And replenish OM by routine mulching at the very least. And the exact same advice is given when using organic ferts - apply only when necessary and do not apply more than is necessary. Over-application of even organically sourced fertilizers can create imbalances and wreak havoc with the soil biology as well.

After more than 30 years of teaching soils classes and advising and consulting on home gardening issues, I can state with some assurance that annual or routine soil tests are seldom called for for a home gardening situation (cropping on a large scale or farming is a very different situation). Once a baseline test has been done and any deficiencies addressed, moderate application of a balanced fertilizer, either synthetic or organic - when deemed necessary - will not create any substantial alterations in the soil chemistry or throw things out of balance. And if you routinely apply OM in the form of a properly 'finished', diverse ingredient compost (as in a mulch or topdressing), then the instances of needing or requiring a supplemental fertilizer application are virtually non-existent. In 25 years of gardening the same plot of land, I can think of only once or twice I used a recognized "fertilizer" (organic or not). But I did mulch routinely with compost, which supplied or resupplied any necessary nutrients that were deficient or lacking, not to mention stimulating an active soil biology. My garden was lush and profuse, without any serious insect or disease problems and hosted a vibrant soil biology.

New gardeners have a tendency to overlook soil qualities altogether or over-think them. The more you known about soils and understand how plants access and process nutrients the less one needs to focus on soil tests and fertilizing. It becomes more of an experiential thing and far less a factor of outside (soil test) input.

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) I have been trying to put it in sample language and you made it very clear as what I was trying to say, as you have stated you are a teacher and I am not. I am so glad that you came on.

Now I will tell you what I have been doing for the past 4 years with all my gardens, I have been putting wood mulch them and the first year I worked it into the clay soil to loosen it up and there after I put compost on it along with the wood mulch. I had it tested and put on what the test called for.

This past season was very dry and my garden out performed all the other gardens around and I did not have to water it where the other people watered there gardens. I have used CSI and they have done a very good job with their testing.

The food that comes out of my garden these past 4 years have more nutrition in my garden than it had in the years ahead of doing these. I grant you the first year may not have been the best but the years after got better. NO chemicals used.

I have my soil tested at my University's soil lab through the County Extension, neither of which has anything to do with fertilizer companies. I'm confident their results are accurate.

John, your posts are full of assumptions and sweeping statements about chemical based agriculture. Various posters here (myself and gardengal among others) agree that soil can be depleted by these methods. That can and has been shown by testing. However, the vague argument that all fertilizers and pesticides are killing our soil and us, is a little overblown in my humble opinion. I do think we have some problems with our ag system globally. Among them are the long term unsustainability of using mined fertilizers while at the same time wasting nutrients from various sources like sewage and manure; large scale low level water pollution by nutrients and even a few pesticides; and ecosystem issues like the honeybee crisis that may be caused by pesticides. Frankly I think the people who need to be convinced to change their habits are the ones in the middle of the bell curve. Moderates who make up the majority of people. Unfortunately, throwing extreme arguments at them usually makes them turn away.

Oh, I wanted to ask about the nutrition content of your garden produce. Are you testing it in some way? I would be very interested in your results. We have one or two forum members here who rely on brix testing for this.

I'm still waiting for clarification that I as a Canadian don't use chemicals on my crops.

Back in the 1960's, when I started learning about organic gardening and was one of those involved in writing the certification standards for organic growers one of the standards required soil testing, periodically, as well as a 5 year soil improvement plan. Whether to test annually or once every 5 years depended on the condition of the soil. Since then I have taught gardening and composting, and have kept on studying and learning about organic gardening, and have urged gardeners to have soil tests done on the soil so that unnecessary soil amendments are not added and necessary soil amendments are added.

A soil test for soil pH and major nutrients is one tool any reasonably intelligent gardener would use, periodically, to aid in determining what the soil may need. Many of us that have kept a garden log have been able to see quite clearly the changes that have taken place over time. Guessing what a soil might need only leads to problems that a garden does not need.

While I am an organic grower and do advocate adding compost, and other forms of organic matter, to soils, there are also limits to that and adding too much can lead to problems as well.

kimmq is kikmmsr