lights are common shop lamps ... some suggest you replace them every year or two ... wide reflector is better .. use extra money for that.. not foo foo lights

and they are adjusted 1 to 2 inches from the tops of the plants ... i found it easier to put the lamps on hardware chain.. and move them.. rather than the shelves ...

get a cheap timer with 2 on/off cycles ... on for 16 hours... and one off/on in the middle of the 8 off.. is said to convince the plants.. they are on 24/7 ...

below it a pic of my stand ... and up-potted plants
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seed starting media is fine milled ... as compared to potting media ... words mean things... though i have no clue where you get such ...

i start them in common flats... and i pot up to 4 oz solo cups at the 4 leaf stage ...

water is held in gal milk jugs.. and is ALWAYS 1/4 strength water sol ... dont care what kind ...

when the roots hit the bottom of the 4 oz.. they go to 8.. then 16 ... use a razor blade.. to slice 3 holes on the bottom edge of the cup... nothing else works ...

in my MI ... i planted around 1/1 ... and had nice size plants to go outside by late may ...

did you review library bobs seed growing pages???? .. simply variations on a theme ... though one might think.. bob got a bit more carried away ... lol ..

there.. absolutely everything you need to know ... in shorthand ... except for what i forgot.. lol ...

have fun

ken

ps: if the pix disappear .. because too many peeps view my pix.. they will be back on the 17th of the month ...

Thank you Ken. I've got an area in the basement that has built in book shelves that are not being used. Going to set up something very similar to what you have in the photo.

Have not read the seed growing pages, will check them out this evening. I've been reading through the list of sites that have come up when searching the subject though google.

Are there any must have books on hybridizing? Or for the most, the info you find on the net is just as good?

Don Rawson (don_r) accumulated hybridizing and seed growing tips into a Hybridizer Manual, which he sells at cost on and off at the Hosta Library.

you will ruin your bookcases ... do not use them.. if they are built ins... unless you dont mind wrecking them ...

i bought the trays for mine .. decades ago.. for about 15$ a piece ... from a 600$ plant stand ... and then bought $10 worth of 2x 4 ... and rigged it all up ...

the pic.. its in a closet in the basement ...under a cement porch ... the heat added .... warmed the ice cold closet ...

ken

Ken, when you say common shop lights do you mean ordanairy florescent tubes or are they special wide spectrum type thingys?

Not planning to do this as yet but interested for the future, plus I don't have a basement lol. thanks.

Best of luck Bungalowmonkeys and keep us in the loop with how its going.

Denis

Bunga, would one or more of your "nerds" be interested in helping? I can see such a project interesting them for part of the winter. You'll be raising some gardeners along with your seedlings. :)

do you mean ordinary florescent tubes or are they special wide spectrum type thingys?

==>>> crikey ... wait.. irish.. father ted .... its hovering there... its obscene.. well ... i'll keep typing.. it will come ... lol

how can i make it any more plain.. COMMON ... not SPECIAL .... not WIDE ... NOT thingey ...

the idea was ... to replace cheap ones every year ... as florescent wear out rather fast ... as to light intensity ...

which of course.. we make up for ... by insuring the lights are ALWAYS about 2 inches from the plants ... which can become a challenge when they start growing different sizes ... one time i had the lights slanted.. 12 inches on one side.. 6 on the other ...

let me sum it up this way... anything other than PLAIN ... OLD.. COMMON.. 4 FOOT TUBES ... are all marketing hype to enrich someone else ... if thats your game.. knock yourself out ...

it did come to me.. see link ...

ken

ps: its right up there with something like 12-12-12 fert.. and paying double.. to buy the name brand .. say something like 'Father Teds holy manure' .. lol ... fec ... its blessed by God ....

Here is a link that might be useful: i remember literally crying the first time i saw this on PBS

Thanks ken, was just checking as what may be common for you guys might not be the same thing over here. curiosity satisfied.

Ya gotta love Mrs Doyle lol!

Thanks

Denis

Hadn't thought about the effects of the heat and possible water on the bookcases. Glad you mentioned that. Will be building something for the unfinished area under the stairs, or in the hubbys workshop.

I have several reptile canopy type lights that I think would work. What have you found the ideal wattage to be? Also what is the max heat that should be allowed, before getting concerned you will damage the seedlings?

My oldest nerd just turned 11 this past weekend and she has informed me she is too "cool". The other three girls are excited though. Especially my 4yro. She has most of the hostas memorized, which is pretty adorable.

Thanks for sharing your set up and knowledge Ken. I've printed this off for a "honey do" project for my husband. Starting seed and cuttings this winter is making me actually look forward to the season .... Yikes !!

Susan

Bunga, I see a period of nerdy participation in your hosta seedling future. I know that Berndny's grandson reached the "too cool" age this year, but the gardening bug is planted. It may lie dormant for a while, then burst forth at the right season once again. Cool shall pass.

What have you found the ideal wattage to be? Also what is the max heat that should be allowed, before getting concerned you will damage the seedlings?

==>>> uggghhhh

i said... COMMON SHOP LIGHT ... the common shop light only comes in one version ... the common version ... i THINK ... they are 40 watts ... but i am not walking out to the polebarn ...

the heat generated.. is only an issue in regard to how it makes watering a problem ... if you start them in a shallow tray ... then it can dry out too fast ....

otherwise.. you will never generate enough heat to worry about it ... its not like it will become moc's yard, down south ...

the seeds do NOT need heat to germinate ... BUT!!!! ... if you are doing it in a cold basement.. in winter.. in snow country... they might take longer .... if all warm and toasty.. they can sprout in 5 to 7 days... otherwise.. maybe two weeks ...

BTW .. no diffuser ... no piece of plastic between the bulb and the plant ...

see link

ken

ps: i am enjoying sharing ... so dont read anything between the lines above ... lol ...

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Moccasin, I let my grandson's gardening interest cool off. He is very good in school, so I don't want to rock that boat, and planted his garden. I never got him into hybridizing though, perhaps one year when he has biology in school. Bernd

Bernd, I believe it is lying there dormant, so that one year it will grow.

Reminds me of The Rose.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bette Midler The Rose...live

Ken was very close the T8 4' bulbs are 32 watt and there is two in each fixture he mentions. They can be found very cheap You don't even need the lights till after germination. Setting them on top of the fridge and checking twice a day is a great spot for small amounts.

SCG

I honestly had no idea what a common shop light was until about two hours ago while shopping at Lowes. The reptile lights have a built in light/heat reflector sheild. It's 48" long, have 4 of them. They weren't cheap, so if they can be reused for this hobby that would be a big bonus. These can create an AZ style climate, but maybe not with different lights in them.

Is there any reason that self watering seedling trays would be a bad idea? I had great luck using them to start annabelle hydrangeas this year. Out of the 40 cuttings I tried to root, 36 took. Ended up giving some away since I didn't plan on so many developing roots.

Ken I actually enjoy your responses and understand your humor.

Reptile lights, as shown, are to produce heat, not light, for the reptile. That being said the flour tube looks fine. Seedlings don't need much, IMHO, but not enough causes catastrophe.

I am not going to voice my opinion of self watering trays........because....crikey.....someone will :)

SCG

I just posted the Hosta Hybridizer's Manual on the Hosta Library auction. IMO, this is the best and most helpful printed resource for growing hosta seedlings.

These are for both, not just heat, they are to create light that mimics that of the afternoon sun. The other two bulbs are what is for heat. Much different from traditional basking/heat lights. Ken mentioned wide reflector, which is what made me think of these.

So no self watering seedling trays. Got it.

Thank you Don. Grabbing it now. :)

Deleted - didn't read auction listing clearly before posting comment.

This post was edited by bungalowmonkeys on Thu, Sep 11, 14 at 21:46

T8 4' bulbs are 32 watt and there is two in each fixture he mentions. They can be found very cheap ==>>> the fixtures are $20 .. the lights used to be a buck or two ...

==>>> i bought my trays.. because i thought i could water.. by filling the trays .. drenching ... when i got to an inch of ice.. ON THE INSIDES OF MY WINDOWS.. in jan/feb.. i rethought that program .. lol ...

its really hard.. perfecting all this stuff ... with a forced air furnace ... in winter ... the actual light part ... becomes the easy variable ... humidity.. air circulation... fungus gnats ... etc...

BTW.. sterilize your media before you use it ... see link ... its so much easier.. to avoid gnats.. than to get rid of them ... i once had to bug bomb the house for gnats in winter .... because i could not see the hockey puck on theTV ... lol

don said: Hosta Hybridizer's Manual on the Hosta Library auction. IMO, this is the best and most helpful printed resource

==>> thank God he threw in that qualifier.. or i would have been offended... lol ... i wonder if my head will fit thru the door when i go upstairs.. lol ...

why not try some in your reptile setup ... whats to lose ... but since you are going off script.. you are probably on your own ... i doubt anyone will have specific experience ... unless there is a reptile forum.. and someone there tried to grow plants in/with such ...

your closer approximation.. is terrariums ... and i just dont see your lights as serving that purpose...

but.. why not try some??? whats to lose ... just dont experiment with the most expensive or prized seed ....

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Until Don's hybridizing manual comes in, here my highlights. I have only one shelf with two shop lights and four seed trays.

It is important to keep things simple, that is buy shop lights, seed starting mix (is sterile), some Perlite to mix in, 10x20 inch seed trays with cells and dome. In case you plan to reuse trays and cells, you need to sterilize them with 10% bleach solution. I never had gnats, need to keep it steril.

I do no longer use heating mats, use the heat of fluorescent lights to heat the surface to 78-80 degrees. My room temperature is 62 dgrs in basement. Note, do not overheat. I create a chamber with even temperatures by closing in shelf with cardboard, inside surface has aluminum foil glued on to reflect light. Grow under a clear dome to keep moisture in. I use a little fungicide (Captan) in spray bottle, have no longer fungus.
After plants have 2 leaves fertilize little plants from bottom (1/2 inch standing water in tray) with half strength Miracle Grow Tomato Food.
Ventilation is natural with warm air escaping to cooler room around. Domes are opened a little when plants are growing, are removed when plants hit top of domes.
Bernd

seed starting mix (is sterile)

==>>> sure it is.. because the bag says so.. right????

my worst failure in that regard.. was relying on said bag ...

i went to dollar store ... got a alum turkey pan ... moistened the media ... covered with alum foil.. like a giant jiffy pop ... poked a few holes.. set the oven accordingly [link above] ... and when i saw steam coming out the holes... good enough .... plastic gal bag for the microwave ...

then i left for a day or two.. to cool off .... covered .... [kinda really need to do this part.. in advance ...]

yes.. !!! everything gets washed down in bleach .. think operating room sterile ...

one way.. in a cold basement.. is to get some cheap .. notice my theme .. lol ... plastic.. think dollar store painters tarp ... and blanket the tarp over the light and down over the trays ... the ballast of the light.. will warm the inside enough to offset a cold basement ... this would be just for seed starting ... once sprouted.. and rooted well.. temps are not relevant ...

the fixtures will come with hangers ... then you will need some chain. .. see link .. and some heavyish teacup hooks ... so you can adjust the lights up and down ... obviously.. you can also move the plants up and down.. but that can become very tricky ....

in my first pic.. note the second shelf.. and how low the lights are adjusted.. giving plenty of space.. as the plants go.. to raise the lights .....

and to be sure.. my way.. is not the only way ... if it works.. it works ... [and if i doesnt.. it will be someone elses fault ... lol]

ken

ps: the chain is attached to the hanger.. by using pliers to open a link ... putting the hanger in.. and reclosing the link ... the height adjustment is made at the teacup hook ....

Here is a link that might be useful: chain

I have a long table in the basement and hang three shop lights over it. Then I buy six Jiffy 25-pellet greenhouses. That's all there is to it. No messing with seed mixes or microwaving anything. With five seeds per pellet, each greenhouse has 125 seeds. Six greenhouses can handle 750 seeds. That's all I feel like dealing with.

ESox, tell me about 5 seeds per pellet.
Do you then thin out or leave all 5 to grow if they germinate?
It sounds so easy.

Moccasin.....

First, you don't really need shelves unless you want to plant thousands of seeds. I use a table and three shop lights. They each have two bulbs that are four feet long, so that is how long the table needs to be. The lights come with chains so you can set them at whatever height you want and adjust them as the plants grow.

I buy the Jiffy 25-pellet greenhouses. Those pellets are a lot larger than the 70-pellet greenhouses. You can easily put five seeds in a pellet -- one in the middle and others at 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock spots. I often plant more seeds.

Obviously, not all will germinate. If you are looking for streakers, many of the seedlings will be plain and can be culled early. Others will be lethal yellows or weak or very slow growing and can be culled.

You can leave the ones that interest you in the greenhouse for a couple of months without doing a thing. When they start getting larger, you can upcup them into Styrofoam cups Just take a pellet and break it apart, untangling the seedlings. Plant them.

You don't have to do the whole greenhouse at once. Maybe only a few pellets need upcupping right now, so do them, then stick the lid back on the greenhouse and save the other pellets for later.

The greenhouses cost more than seed mix but are much easier to deal with. Still pretty cheap hobby.

i had a nightmare with pure peat pellets ...

you better be there every single day of your life.. to insure they are perfectly watered... peat can be soggy one day.. and near devoid of water the next ... but looking like its wet ...

now.. just because i hate them with the passion of a million burning suns ..... 30 years later ... whats that all about.. lol .. i think there is still half a box out in the garage ....

let me put it this way.. would you use pure peat as a potting media?????

do note.. esox has had success ... and all the power to them .. i failed ... as of right now.. that puts your odds at 50-50 ....

roll your own dice ...

ken

Here's my set up. I took a small computer room in the basement, took up the carpet, installed 20" tiles, a laundry tub, work surface and two racks with lights.

Opposite angle, best part is I can close the door when company is over because it's usually pretty messy :) Only change is that now I have 3 fixtures above each shelf so now each shelf has 6 4' 32 W 6500 K bulbs above it.

Dan

What a sweet gardening buddy! Very nice dedicated space. I've been trying to figure out, other than under the stairs, a decent spot for everything.

What do you use to plant the seeds in?

The peat pellets in the Jiffy greenhouses are activated by pouring water on them before planting the seeds. They require no care after that. You add no water after that. You could go to Florida for a couple of months and leave them on automatic pilot.

I do go to Florida for three weeks and am greeted on my return by happy hosta seedlings.

I plant the seeds in plastic cups with drainage holes made in the bottom, set in reusable Perma-nest trays.

esox ... i am sure your system works.. and i congratulate you ...

i was just saying they didnt work for me ...

dan.. you dont do anything in a small way .... eh ... lol .. glad to see someone turns off their computer ....

hospital clean it surely is ...

to get rid of my multiple extensions cords... i mean really.. there is a lot of water in this equation ... i had an electrician make a 4outlet box.. with one heavy duty cord to the wall ... any idiot can probably do that.. but electricity is one of my fears.. and i have no clue why ..

on dans.. i see to see one cord leaving the structure.. but i cant figure out where all the light cords go ... on one.. to the top???? .. how does this all work dan????

dan might have been able to skip the third fixture.. if he had wide reflectors on the fixtures ...

finally ... if you plant your seed in December.. dans plants are what your should look like.. IN MARCH... if you are doing it properly .... anything less.. and you can do better ....

ken

Ken All of the cords from the fixtures run to the top, where they are plugged into a heavy duty GFCI power strip so most of the cords are out of the way except for the ones running to one dual outlet per rack of shelves.

Dan

This is sounding do-able the more I read.
Plus, my seeds are drying slowly but surely. I have so far harvested 2 dried scapes of Sagae, and 3 pods of one scape of Jabulani and 2 pods of Tonoko Tachi which were bursting open. I lost some of the seeds to the soil surrounding the pot. It is encouraging to actually FEEL the bumps of the seeds at the end of the wing. What I am excited about are all the pods of Victory and Elegans, the surprising amount of seed pods from my fragrant hosta which were exposed to a lot of sun except for maybe midday. I'm hoping that Victory crossed with some of those, which bloomed around the same time. I guess they will still be greenies or goldies, but perhaps get really large with a leaf shape like Victory? It sure does grow well here.

I'm hoping my DH will not mind supervising my venture into hosta seedlings. His years of experience growing from seed each winter up in MA is a big plus for me. I remember all the racks and trays and lights which populated his basement there. Who knows.....there may be a second hosta fanatic residing in Mobile by next spring!

Dan those seedlings are beautiful! What do you do with them? Sell, or plant and enjoy, or study them?

Don thank you for the manual. Came in the mail this morning. I've been able to read a third of it so far while the youngest two napped. And you are right It's a must have. It is well written, easy to understand and very thorough.

Mocc you should grab this book if you don't have it.

I hear you, Bunga, and I intend to get it soon. I've been spreading coyote urine around the garden, to stop the moles voles squirrels whatever, and got distracted.

Sometimes, you forget the intention was to drain the swamp.......when you're knee deep in alligators....that's an old south Louisiana saying...hehehe

where they are plugged into a heavy duty GFCI power strip

==>> i KNEW you were on top of it ...

GFI rocks ... lets hope the rest of them pick on on electric safety ...

ken

Bungalowmonkey, I "plant and enjoy". :)

What are the parents of those dan they have wonderful color..very nice set up as well.

Mike this pic is from a few years ago when I was really in to streakers. Best guess is the pod parents are Fickle Blue Genes and Ice Age Trail which were my favorite two breeders that year.

Dan